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  1. #5281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    Ah, from the old school look. What if they were to remove that element and perhaps do the whole alien thing?
    He'd be Egg Fu in all but name (and even that would have to be changed because of the baggage). In which case, you might as well just come up with an entirely different character that has nothing to do with Egg Fu. It's not like he has a particularly interesting gimmick anyway.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-14-2022 at 08:12 AM.

  2. #5282
    Incredible Member Geraldofrivia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I'm fine with Diana's invulnerability not being as high as Superman's. Strength and speed wise she should be a match for Superman, Flash, Heracles, Thor and other heroes of myth.

    It justifies the armor, bullets and bracelets and makes fights more interesting.
    interesting

  3. #5283
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    He'd be Egg Fu in all but name (and even that would have to br changed because of the baggage). In which case, you might as well just come up with an entirely different character that has nothing to do with Egg Fu. It's not like he has a particularly interesting gimmick anyway.
    Ooooooooooooo the NAME! It just occurred to me why the name itself is bad/mocking. Yikes

    That would seem to require a Mark Wahlberg PLANET OF THE APES "Simos" style fix

  4. #5284
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    One of my favorite things in the world is reimagining and revamping “goofy” villains into something credible and interesting as a foe for Diana and/or the Amazons.

    I don’t shy away from playing around with and trying to re-develop enemies like Doctor Domino, Paper Man, Crimson Centipede, Human Fireworks, etc. - bring ‘em on!

    It’s fun to play with and update characters and concepts from the vast history of Wonder Woman into something relevant today. It’s a nice nod to her history.

  5. #5285

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    People like egg themed villains. They don't like racism. If we can have an egg themed villain minus the racism that would be great.

    The problem with Egg Fu is none of the revamps have stuck, followed up on or really struck a chord with the audience. Lacked the secret sauce that made the DCAU revamp of Mr Freeze so enduring.

    If Mandarin and his 10 rings can be revamped as Wenwu and turned into a cool antagonist played by a well respected actor like Tony Leung. Then there is hope for Egg Fu.

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  6. #5286
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Egg Fu's persistence seems just more a testament to comic writers not understanding not every stupid half-thought from the Silver Age needs to be brought back and honored.


    Is it terrible that I feel this sentiment in the marrow of my bonees?

  7. #5287
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    People like egg themed villains. They don't like racism. If we can have an egg themed villain minus the racism that would be great.

    The problem with Egg Fu is none of the revamps have stuck, followed up on or really struck a chord with the audience. Lacked the secret sauce that made the DCAU revamp of Mr Freeze so enduring.

    If Mandarin and his 10 rings can be revamped as Wenwu and turned into a cool antagonist played by a well respected actor like Tony Leung. Then there is hope for Egg Fu.
    Not every bad character can be salvaged. Even with Mandarin, there are still people of Asian origin who'd rather he not exist. Diana has a lot of villains. I don't think we're missing anything if Egg Fu is forgotten.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-28-2022 at 04:06 AM.

  8. #5288
    Ultimate Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Not every bad character can be salvaged. Even with Mandarin, there are still people of Asian origin who'd ratger he not exist. Diana has a lot of villains. I don't think we're missing anything if Egg Fu is forgotten.
    honestly... that's true of almost every character who has ethnic origin as part of the design, especially supervillains. Take Bane in Batman stories..... He's a Mexican, and some people think he makes Mexicans look bad... and that the Luchador gimmick is a "stereotype".

  9. #5289

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Not every bad character can be salvaged. Even with Mandarin, there are still people of Asian origin who'd ratger he not exist. Diana has a lot of villains. I don't think we're missing anything if Egg Fu is forgotten.
    The thing is, I doubt that will actually happen.

    As long as DC keeps publishing comics, somebody at some point will try again. Even an Asian writer might take a stab at trying to 'reclaim' Egg Fu. Personally, I would much rather DC confront their past and did to Egg Fu what Marvel did to Mandarin in Shang Chi than act like he never the character never existed. Trying to bury the problematic aspects of comics can lead to their own problems too.

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  10. #5290
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The thing is, I doubt that will actually happen.

    As long as DC keeps publishing comics, somebody at some point will try again. Even an Asian writer might take a stab at trying to 'reclaim' Egg Fu. Personally, I would much rather DC confront their past and did to Egg Fu what Marvel did to Mandarin in Shang Chi than act like he never the character never existed. Trying to bury the problematic aspects of comics can lead to their own problems too.
    That would be great. But very unlikely to happen. They can't even do that with WW. So egg fu has 0 chances as things are right now.

  11. #5291
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    I am very late, but I just finished reading the Wonder Woman: The Four Horsewomen trade. The trade included: Annual 3, 82-83, 750-758, and Annual 4.

    My controversial opinion: I understand why DC did not ask Steve Orlando to be the permanent writer for Wonder Woman after these issues.

    Don't get me wrong; I think Orlando's love for Wonder Woman, her cast, her world, her villains, and just her lore, in general, is quite evident. I also think he has some great big ideas. Cheetah enslaving the Amazons, Valkyries vs Amazons, the Four Horsewomen, the Paula Von Gunther revamp and connecting her to Gundra, and the Embassy Island. All wonderful ideas and excellent additions to the mythos.

    My issue with Orlando is I think he writes very shallow and repetitive dialogue. Reading the trade over two days, it's quite apparent that the characters state the same general ideas in a variety of ways on multiple pages, and as a result, the relationships feel empty, the stakes don't seem to effectively rise with the threat, and ultimately his Wonder Woman and her cast feel mechanical and lifeless. While I love both Annuals, I thought the single issues really highlighted Orlando's weaknesses as a writer while the Annuals and even his Wonder Woman/Mayfly issue from several years ago highlight his strengths.

    Additionally, having a major storyline where the Amazons are slaughtered by Genocide immediately after Cheetah enslaves the Amazons only reminded me how much I used to dislike the Amazons as "characters" before the recent initiatives with Nubia and the Bana-Mighdall backups that help to flesh out the Amazons as actual characters beyond redshirts. I'm also reminded of how Cheetah had a rather lackluster "motivation" for attacking the Amazons with an ill-conceived belief that Cheetah must enlighten Diana regarding the brutality and duplicity of the Gods. Diana in the Rebirth universe had never been shown to blindly follow gods, and Diana warned Barbara Ann all the way back in Godwatch about the danger of gods, which Barbara Ann completely dismissed.

    The Wonder Woman title, at that time, having to be all things to all people isn't Orlando's fault; however, I still thought he did not strike the right balance of Wonder Woman/Wonder World/ Mythology/ Villains/ Themyscira, which led to the arc just feeling bloated.

    While I do like his attempts to help Wonder Woman feel as if she was part of the larger DC world: The Phanton Stranger, Iron Maiden, Wonder Woman of China, Maxima, Silencer, to name a few, I thought most of those stories felt like filler - not all but most.

    I also despise Diana randomly moving to Boston and the addition of Nora. I don't think Orlando created the Maggie character, but I still hated being reminded of her existence.

    2. I wish artists would draw Donna with short hair to make her feel more aesthetically different from Diana. I would prefer a pixie cut.

    3. I think Devastation would work better as a Cassie Sandsmark/Young Justice villain.

    4. I'm not certain if this is unpopular, but I love Genocide and her visual touch-up. I wouldn't mind seeing her in more Wonder Woman stories.

  12. #5292
    Incredible Member bardkeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I am very late, but I just finished reading the Wonder Woman: The Four Horsewomen trade. The trade included: Annual 3, 82-83, 750-758, and Annual 4.

    My controversial opinion: I understand why DC did not ask Steve Orlando to be the permanent writer for Wonder Woman after these issues.

    Don't get me wrong; I think Orlando's love for Wonder Woman, her cast, her world, her villains, and just her lore, in general, is quite evident. I also think he has some great big ideas. Cheetah enslaving the Amazons, Valkyries vs Amazons, the Four Horsewomen, the Paula Von Gunther revamp and connecting her to Gundra, and the Embassy Island. All wonderful ideas and excellent additions to the mythos.

    My issue with Orlando is I think he writes very shallow and repetitive dialogue. Reading the trade over two days, it's quite apparent that the characters state the same general ideas in a variety of ways on multiple pages, and as a result, the relationships feel empty, the stakes don't seem to effectively rise with the threat, and ultimately his Wonder Woman and her cast feel mechanical and lifeless. While I love both Annuals, I thought the single issues really highlighted Orlando's weaknesses as a writer while the Annuals and even his Wonder Woman/Mayfly issue from several years ago highlight his strengths.

    Additionally, having a major storyline where the Amazons are slaughtered by Genocide immediately after Cheetah enslaves the Amazons only reminded me how much I used to dislike the Amazons as "characters" before the recent initiatives with Nubia and the Bana-Mighdall backups that help to flesh out the Amazons as actual characters beyond redshirts. I'm also reminded of how Cheetah had a rather lackluster "motivation" for attacking the Amazons with an ill-conceived belief that Cheetah must enlighten Diana regarding the brutality and duplicity of the Gods. Diana in the Rebirth universe had never been shown to blindly follow gods, and Diana warned Barbara Ann all the way back in Godwatch about the danger of gods, which Barbara Ann completely dismissed.

    The Wonder Woman title, at that time, having to be all things to all people isn't Orlando's fault; however, I still thought he did not strike the right balance of Wonder Woman/Wonder World/ Mythology/ Villains/ Themyscira, which led to the arc just feeling bloated.
    You highlighted exactly what I didn't like about Orlando's run. I'm surprised people liked it as much as they did - I didn't think it was terrible, but I did think it was forgettable and that was in large part due to his bland dialog. And as you said, he clearly has a lot of love for the character, but I think he wound up with a similar problem Phil Jimenez ran into during his run where he overstuffed it.

    Honestly pretty much all of the post-Rebirth writers really floundered with the villains Rucka built up. Veronica Cale was REALLY done dirty. It goes without saying that Robinson did a terrible job, but G. Willow Wilson having her turn into a weepy mess begging for help getting her baby back as soon as Diana confronts her is just...so lazy. The 2 core things about her character are that she (1) equates vulnerability with weakness and (2) hates and fundamentally distrusts Diana and the Amazons (even from day 1 she didn't trust Diana enough to ask for help, and that was before she spent a decade destroying her own life and the lives of everyone around her because of her entanglements with Diana and her gods), so to turn around and have her suddenly trust the person she blames for her life's suffering without earning it does a huge disservice to the character. Cloonrad's run isn't perfect, but I'm glad they seem to recognize that using a character with as much baggage as Cheetah or Veronica Cale in their relatively lighthearted stories would do them a disservice.

    Frankly I think Rucka's greatest strength as a writer is his greatest weakness as a contributor to an ongoing - he writes his stories like screenplays. He writes great dialog, he sets the emotional stakes early on, each character has a rich, defined arc with a beginning and end, and he doesn't leave many loose threads. It makes his stories incredibly impactful and cinematic, and frankly reading Godwatch or Eyes of the Gorgon back-to-back with something middle-of-the-road like The Four Horsewomen feels downright unfair, but I can imagine it's really tough to pick up where he leaves off.

    My proposed solution is, of course, to just rebrand the ongoing as "Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman" and keep him on the book exclusively until he retires. (But in all seriousness, when they inevitably reboot the film franchise, they should absolutely tap him to write the scripts)

  13. #5293
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PopQuezy View Post
    I am very late, but I just finished reading the Wonder Woman: The Four Horsewomen trade. The trade included: Annual 3, 82-83, 750-758, and Annual 4.

    My controversial opinion: I understand why DC did not ask Steve Orlando to be the permanent writer for Wonder Woman after these issues.

    Don't get me wrong; I think Orlando's love for Wonder Woman, her cast, her world, her villains, and just her lore, in general, is quite evident. I also think he has some great big ideas. Cheetah enslaving the Amazons, Valkyries vs Amazons, the Four Horsewomen, the Paula Von Gunther revamp and connecting her to Gundra, and the Embassy Island. All wonderful ideas and excellent additions to the mythos.

    My issue with Orlando is I think he...
    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    You highlighted exactly what I didn't like about Orlando's run. I'm surprised people liked it as much as they did - I didn't think it was terrible, but I did think it was forgettable and that was in large part due to his bland dialog. And as you said, he clearly has a lot of love for the character, but I think he wound up with a similar problem Phil Jimenez ran into during his run where he overstuffed it.

    Honestly pretty much all of the post-Rebirth writers really floundered with the villains Rucka built up. Veronica Cale was REALLY done dirty. It goes without saying that Robinson did a terrible job, but G. Willow Wilson having her turn into a weepy mess begging for help...
    Exceptional reviews, Bardkeep...PopQueazy!
    COMBINING THE BIGBADITUDE OF THANOS WITH CHEETAH'S FEROCITY, IS JANUS WONDER WOMAN'S GREATEST SUPERVILLAIN?...on WONDABUNGA!!! Look alive, Kangaliers!

  14. #5294
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The thing is, I doubt that will actually happen.

    As long as DC keeps publishing comics, somebody at some point will try again. Even an Asian writer might take a stab at trying to 'reclaim' Egg Fu. Personally, I would much rather DC confront their past and did to Egg Fu what Marvel did to Mandarin in Shang Chi than act like he never the character never existed. Trying to bury the problematic aspects of comics can lead to their own problems too.
    How do you mean?
    Last edited by Agent Z; 05-28-2022 at 04:10 AM.

  15. #5295
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardkeep View Post
    You highlighted exactly what I didn't like about Orlando's run. I'm surprised people liked it as much as they did - I didn't think it was terrible, but I did think it was forgettable and that was in large part due to his bland dialog. And as you said, he clearly has a lot of love for the character, but I think he wound up with a similar problem Phil Jimenez ran into during his run where he overstuffed it.

    Honestly pretty much all of the post-Rebirth writers really floundered with the villains Rucka built up. Veronica Cale was REALLY done dirty. It goes without saying that Robinson did a terrible job, but G. Willow Wilson having her turn into a weepy mess begging for help getting her baby back as soon as Diana confronts her is just...so lazy. The 2 core things about her character are that she (1) equates vulnerability with weakness and (2) hates and fundamentally distrusts Diana and the Amazons (even from day 1 she didn't trust Diana enough to ask for help, and that was before she spent a decade destroying her own life and the lives of everyone around her because of her entanglements with Diana and her gods), so to turn around and have her suddenly trust the person she blames for her life's suffering without earning it does a huge disservice to the character. Cloonrad's run isn't perfect, but I'm glad they seem to recognize that using a character with as much baggage as Cheetah or Veronica Cale in their relatively lighthearted stories would do them a disservice.

    Frankly I think Rucka's greatest strength as a writer is his greatest weakness as a contributor to an ongoing - he writes his stories like screenplays. He writes great dialog, he sets the emotional stakes early on, each character has a rich, defined arc with a beginning and end, and he doesn't leave many loose threads. It makes his stories incredibly impactful and cinematic, and frankly reading Godwatch or Eyes of the Gorgon back-to-back with something middle-of-the-road like The Four Horsewomen feels downright unfair, but I can imagine it's really tough to pick up where he leaves off.

    My proposed solution is, of course, to just rebrand the ongoing as "Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman" and keep him on the book exclusively until he retires. (But in all seriousness, when they inevitably reboot the film franchise, they should absolutely tap him to write the scripts)
    The subsequent writers not doing much with the Cheetah-Cale feud is one of my biggest frustrations with Rebirth. We don't typically see those kind of dynamics between female villains in comics outside of the X-verse maybe. Wilson having them team up at the end of her run before having Cheetah remember she hates Veronica was one of the more underwhelming character beats from her run.

    The lack of use for the revamped Dr. Cyber is also a travesty.

    But yes, he and DeConnick should be on speed dial for any future movies

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