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  1. #1

    Default Where does the crossed bracelets pose come from?

    I'm trying to find some comic book examples and the oldest I can get is a José Luiz Garcia Lopez piece from around 1983 (or later).



    I checked all the comic covers from before the Crisis and none of them have this pose. I also don't remember of ever having seeing one instance in the books.

    It never crossed my mind before... but has it originated from the TV show?

    In the show, it's not a proper greeting or something, just a preparation to deflect the bullets, but she does it 5 or 6 times during the show, and other Amazons do it too. It's also featured in some promotional material.



    So, does it actually comes from the show and was "officialized" in the comics when Pérez turned it into an Amazon greeting, perhaps inspired by the series or the popularity of the pose that came from it?

    Can someone confirm or deny this?

  2. #2
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    The show is where I first remember seeing the pose. I think before this she usually poses with her arms crossed above her head.

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    The first place I saw it was the TV show as well. However, I distinctly remember my grandmother sitting with me and looking through an issue with Gene Colan art with her crossing her bracelets like that up close and the gunmen's images reflected in them. Volume 1 #297

  4. #4
    Fantastic Member wonder39's Avatar
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    WW 297 is from the early 80s so the TV show seems more like the point of origin.

    Also are we sure that art is from 83? It seems like it's from the newer lisencing art JLGL did fairly "recently". The 83/style guide had a different inker (or it's just the progression of JLGL's art.... The overall art is a little different between the two
    ..

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    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Undertaker View Post
    I'm trying to find some comic book examples and the oldest I can get is a José Luiz Garcia Lopez piece from around 1983 (or later).
    I checked all the comic covers from before the Crisis and none of them have this pose. I also don't remember of ever having seeing one instance in the books.
    This doesn't count?


    I mean there are random instances, going back to drawings by Harry G. Peter where she's prepping to deflecting bullets, and her arms are crossed. but it's not a strike a power pose like situation.

    https://i.imgur.com/eJMSYoV.jpg

    To S v WW (José Luis García-López (1977)
    https://i.imgur.com/m085VF1.jpg

    To Super Friends - https://i.imgflip.com/3983v6.gif
    Above from Challenge era, 1978

    That just happens to be how she preps to deflect bullets.
    Seems pretty common, throughout, but I imagine that is not what you are looking for?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Undertaker View Post

    It never crossed my mind before... but has it originated from the TV show?

    In the show, it's not a proper greeting or something, just a preparation to deflect the bullets, but she does it 5 or 6 times during the show, and other Amazons do it too. It's also featured in some promotional material.
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/91/5e...b44bca1439.jpg



    As far as the Power pose, It absolutely featured strongly in the Lynda Carter 1975 –1979 promo imagery.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Undertaker View Post

    So, does it actually comes from the show and was "officialized" in the comics when Pérez turned it into an Amazon greeting, perhaps inspired by the series or the popularity of the pose that came from it?

    Can someone confirm or deny this?
    Like others here, as a "power pose", straight on like that, my first visual of it, was also Lynda Carter, which made it absolutely iconic.

    The 1979 Mego Wonder Woman figure reflected that. - https://i.imgflip.com/398cvg.gif
    As the iconic gesture was recreated in the commercials







    As did the 80's Super Powers figure, whose packaging illustration featured it.
    And the actual "Super Power" of her figure was the gimmick to in fact make her cross her bracelets.

    This "Power Action Deflector Bracelets" described on the package was a specific gimmick (movement) unique to her figure.
    Others would do a punching, twisting, kicking or running motion.
    Only her figure had the specific shoulder joint cut, so triggering it would make her arms cross.

    So yes by the 80's this was absolutely a go to way to depict her.

    If it's Lynda Carter who popularized, it, all the more Wonderful!
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-19-2019 at 01:09 PM.

  6. #6
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    In the post-Crisis WW comic, ..George Perez and Greg Potter made crossing the chest with bracelets, an Amazon greeting that Diana introduced to the world, through her youth movement, the Amazon Girls or Rage Girls [?]. The bourgeois, elitist girls in the group, who all wore over-priced, fake manacles, delighted in turning away poor girls, who couldn't afford them. Nessie, who was an Amazon Girl, at the time, tired of this snobbery and quit the group, after telling these little heifers to go chase themselves.

    Anyway, it started as an over-the-head thing on Lynda's show, in the 70s, and was picked up by Potter and Perez in the post-Crisis WW comic.

    I mentioned this to some Black Panther fans, and they didn't want to hear it. It's a thing, now. One told me it belonged to Black Panther, now, and I said, "Nope...it belongs to Wonder Woman fans, and we're keeping it." A fellow fan told me he and some other fans or cosplayers were harassed by Panther fans, who saw them doing the Perez/Potter greeting, at a con. I don't mind sharing the greeting, since it isn't patented for WW, ..but, we sure as Styx aren't giving it up for fans of a MARVEL movie that came out in what...2017?

    On a sidenote, ..Captain Marvel had the Macedonian star, first. I think we have to own that.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-29-2019 at 04:24 PM.
    Look alive, Kangaliers!

  7. #7
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Post Crisis (yes, these would be well after the TV show)

    As power pose
    WW #1


    The salute:



    [IMG]As Iconic Billboard WW #9: [/IMG]
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-01-2019 at 07:09 AM.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post

    I mentioned this to some Black Panther fans, and they didn't want to hear it. It's a thing, now. One told me it belonged to Black Panther, now, and I said, "Nope...it belongs to Wonder Woman fans, and we're keeping it." A fellow fan told me he and some other fans or cosplayers were harassed by Panther fans, who saw them doing the Perez/Potter greeting, at a con. I don't mind sharing the greeting, since it isn't patented for WW, ..but, we sure as Styx aren't giving it up for fans of a MARVEL movie that came out in what...2017?.
    LOL if this is about Panther fans co-opting it, and who had it first? Yeah they don't have a leg to stand on, as indicated Lynda Carter was doing it since 1975, it was on TV, the comics and even the action figures were doing it.
    It's not even in question.

    And she didn't skip a beat when it came time to pose, at a ceremony honoring her with a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame April 3, 2018



    As pact and Power Pose #21


    And greeting # 22


    More...
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-01-2019 at 07:10 AM.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    As prayer:

    Wonder Woman #8 (1987)


    And salute and prayer
    WW Annual #2

  10. #10
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    It really only works when Lynda Carter does it and that is because of the medium itself. When you see the character posing with her arms crossed in her entirety, it actually looks silly, but when the camera zooms in on Carter's face it works. As a sort of fighting posture its pretty silly too, as your basically only covering your chest and leaving the rest of your body exposed.

    I'm against using this stance as any sort of salute too btw. This type of saluting is inherently authoritarian and patriarchal.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    It really only works when Lynda Carter does it and that is because of the medium itself. When you see the character posing with her arms crossed in her entirety, it actually looks silly, but when the camera zooms in on Carter's face it works. As a sort of fighting posture its pretty silly too, as your basically only covering your chest and leaving the rest of your body exposed.

    I'm against using this stance as any sort of salute too btw. This type of saluting is inherently authoritarian and patriarchal.
    What is patriarchal and authoritarian about crossing your arms?

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    It really only works when Lynda Carter does it and that is because of the medium itself. When you see the character posing with her arms crossed in her entirety, it actually looks silly, but when the camera zooms in on Carter's face it worksI
    Only?
    There are images (posted above) of Lynda Carter not zoomed in too, and they look great.
    It works fantastic, and looks powerful, live action, illustrated, as a statue, etc.







    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    . As a sort of fighting posture its pretty silly too, as your basically only covering your chest and leaving the rest of your body exposed.
    What single hand gesture covers her whole body?
    And obviously she is going to move depending on the threat. Are you imagining she's frozen there coz it's a comics? LOL?
    You know she moves right? ...and fast!
    It can obviously suggest a starting point, especial from a gun pointed right at her chest.
    Read that bolded part again before you reply, and consider the iconic nature of the pose.
    Also nobody suggested it was or should be the only fighting stance that should be drawn, or conveyed, (only you have suggested that) that has never been or would ever be the case LOL.
    This is one of many, just recognizing it is an iconic one.
    Last edited by Güicho; 09-01-2019 at 02:21 PM.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Güicho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinsir View Post
    This type of saluting is inherently authoritarian and patriarchal.
    "Type"? Please define what you mean by that.
    And recognize they are warriors.
    And you think all symbolic hand gestures, greetings, etc,. all mean/convey the same thing, just by nature of being hand gestures?
    Wouldn't any hand gesture or greeting (real or fictitious) depend entirely on the context, and who is doing it?



    Last edited by Güicho; 09-01-2019 at 02:31 PM.

  14. #14
    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What is patriarchal and authoritarian about crossing your arms?
    Historically, these types of salutes are derived from the military (the Roman salute) or from how how people treated the king and his delegates. Salutes are commonly used by armies because they are a ranked, authoritarian structures. In our modern culture, these sorts of salutes exist solely in the military, in the historical memory of authoritarian regimes or pop culture replicas of these regimes (the Empire from Star Wars) When I first saw Black Lives Matters activists doing that stupid Wakanda salute I genuinely got Fascist vibes off them because it clearly looks like a military salute.

    There are salutes that aren't authoritarian or patriarchal (like greetings, or the raised fist) but when used in crowds they aren't used with the same uniformity. During Labour Day protests you aren't going to see mobs of people with a raised fist marching with the same organization as you would see during Bastille Day.
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    Relic Seeker Pinsir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Güicho View Post
    "Type"? Please define what you mean by that.
    And recognize they are warriors.
    And you think all symbolic hand gestures, greetings, etc,. all mean/convey the same thing, just by nature of being hand gestures?
    Wouldn't any hand gesture or greeting (real or fictitious) depend internally on the context, and who is doing it?
    Context does matter. Those women you posted are performing mudras, which each have various meanings in the religions and cultures that spawned from South Asia. You aren't pledging fealty to a king or government when you perform a mudra and as far as I know mudras were never used in that context. Mudras are primarily a form of religious expression and sometimes westerners unknowingly perform them when doing yoga.

    My problem is with military salutes. It is true that the Amazons are warriors, but warriors don't salute each other. Soldiers do, however, salute (Yes, I am implying there is a difference between warriors and soldiers). Saluting requires a type of military organization that did not exist in most historical societies, an organization that performs dills and strictly enforces hierarchies with discipline, where as warrior bands would be looser. Hierarchy still exists (there is a war band leader after all, a chief), but its not as formalized and leaders don't exert the same type of control as they could in modern armies.

    I would say the Amazons should be depicted more like a militia, with lax hierarchies and as a result, no saluting.
    Want to read Wonder Woman stories, but don't know where to start? Check out my top 10 lists for Golden Age, Silver Age, Bronze Age and Modern Age Wonder Woman tales!

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