Page 72 of 84 FirstFirst ... 226268697071727374757682 ... LastLast
Results 1,066 to 1,080 of 1250
  1. #1066
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    3,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm kind of iffy on "beauty and loving heart" and "opening men's hearts" as powers.

    Beauty as a power doesn't seem very impressive in a superhero universe where even civilian women can be depicted as unrealistically beautiful. A loving heart sounds like if Diana lost her powers she'd be a hateful person. And opening men's hearts raises questions about consent and free will that I don't think the comics were intending to answer.
    That's partly why I think they have fallen to the wayside, but it's also why I'd like for writers to re-interpret and examine the gifts from Aphrodite and Hestia. One such way that several writers have picked up on is that Diana is exceedlingly empathetic and compassionate; it's something both Tynion and the movie showed. She's an extraordinary psychological therapist, and I think that could both come from her Amazonian education and training, but also from the gifts from Aphrodite and Hestia working together there.

    Another thing, that can be used to tie into the lasso, is that a large part of why Diana is trusted with the lasso is because of her extraordinary empathy: she has an acute feel for when it is appropriate to use the lasso, because she knows when other people aren't telling the truth, but she can also get a "sense" of when it's worthwhile to use the lasso.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  2. #1067
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    Diana's Top Twenty villains and adversaries (in no particular order) should be:

    1. Ares
    2. Cheetah
    3. Circe
    4. Doctor Poison
    5. Doctor Psycho
    6. Doctor Cyber
    7. Angle Man
    8. Heracles
    9. Silver Swan
    10. Giganta
    11. Medusa
    12. Queen Clea
    13. Veronica Cale
    14. Superwoman
    15. Eviless
    16. Grail
    17. Queen of Fables
    18. The Mask
    19. Duke Dazam
    20. A new antihero I've been developing

    Other villains can come and go and be supporting characters for other villains, but we should someday know these foes as well as any Batfoes.

  3. #1068
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    I'm kind of iffy on "beauty and loving heart" and "opening men's hearts" as powers.

    Beauty as a power doesn't seem very impressive in a superhero universe where even civilian women can be depicted as unrealistically beautiful. A loving heart sounds like if Diana lost her powers she'd be a hateful person. And opening men's hearts raises questions about consent and free will that I don't think the comics were intending to answer.
    Yeah, I don't really like the loving heart and wisdom being things a God gifts to her. Those are personality traits she should develop on her own and not have "programmed" into her.

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    Diana's Top Twenty villains and adversaries (in no particular order) should be:

    1. Ares
    2. Cheetah
    3. Circe
    4. Doctor Poison
    5. Doctor Psycho
    6. Doctor Cyber
    7. Angle Man
    8. Heracles
    9. Silver Swan
    10. Giganta
    11. Medusa
    12. Queen Clea
    13. Veronica Cale
    14. Superwoman
    15. Eviless
    16. Grail
    17. Queen of Fables
    18. The Mask
    19. Duke Dazam
    20. A new antihero I've been developing

    Other villains can come and go and be supporting characters for other villains, but we should someday know these foes as well as any Batfoes.
    I agree with a lot of those. Mine would be

    1. Cheetah
    2. Ares
    3. Circe
    4. Veronica Cale
    5. Dr. Psycho
    6. Deimos
    7. Phobos
    8. Eris
    9. Giganta
    10. Queen Clea
    11. Dr. Poison
    12. Eviless
    13. Zara
    14. Blue Snowman
    15. Hypnota
    16. Dr. Cyber
    17. Silver San
    18. Angle Man
    19. Medusa
    20. Hercules

  4. #1069
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    3,031

    Default

    I'd put Doctor Psycho a lot higher on that list. He should score very high both on ideological opposition to Wonder Woman, personal animus against her, and frequency of their encounters.

    As for Circe, I'd much prefer her as a really troublesome and fickle ally than outright enemy.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  5. #1070
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,657

    Default

    I honestly feel Circe is more of a Hippolyta villain than a wonder woman villain. With Diana, she just wants to start trouble

  6. #1071
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'd put Doctor Psycho a lot higher on that list. He should score very high both on ideological opposition to Wonder Woman, personal animus against her, and frequency of their encounters.

    As for Circe, I'd much prefer her as a really troublesome and fickle ally than outright enemy.
    My list is in no particular order or ranking.

    Dr. Psycho has been ridiculously underutilized as a villain. He's terrifyingly devious and while I appreciate the soap operatic turn of character of Maxwell Lord, it's like they've wanted to supplant Psycho with Lord. (Note: I don't think Doctor Psycho needs to be portrayed as a person of short stature to work.)

    As far as Circe goes, I've enjoyed the Perez, Rucka, and Tynion depictions of her (as well as the JLU animated series version), so I like my Circe to have some range alternately as a Witch Goddess, Sorcerous Dr. Moreau, Sublime Deity-Adventuress, and Madcap, Mayhem-ic, Musical, Machiavellian Diva. The confident, troublesome, and fickle sometimes ally fits into some of these depictions.
    Last edited by WonderScott; 09-22-2019 at 09:30 AM.

  7. #1072
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    3,031

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    My list is on no particular order or ranking.
    Ah; missed that notice on top. Sorry about that.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  8. #1073
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yeah, I don't really like the loving heart and wisdom being things a God gifts to her. Those are personality traits she should develop on her own and not have "programmed" into her.



    I agree with a lot of those. Mine would be

    1. Cheetah
    2. Ares
    3. Circe
    4. Veronica Cale
    5. Dr. Psycho
    6. Deimos
    7. Phobos
    8. Eris
    9. Giganta
    10. Queen Clea
    11. Dr. Poison
    12. Eviless
    13. Zara
    14. Blue Snowman
    15. Hypnota
    16. Dr. Cyber
    17. Silver San
    18. Angle Man
    19. Medusa
    20. Hercules
    I love a lot of these characters too... in my way of thinking Eris, Phobos, and Deimos (and Harmonia for that matter) are extensions of Ares's villainy. Not that they can't stand alone, but they get introduced by him.

    I have something particular in mind that's new for Eviless so that's why she stands alone in my list. I think of Villainy Inc as a team or unit and would include Zara, Blue Snowman, Hypnota, and other characters, as a primary way to focus on their characters - alongside others that are on or off the list.

    It's just stupid to me that the characters to me that we've listed aren't "bigger" than they are... I find a lot of Wonder foes fascinating in psychological, thematic, emotional, etc. ways and get annoyed that I'm the only one who does.

  9. #1074
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    San Francisco, CA
    Posts
    3,064

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I honestly feel Circe is more of a Hippolyta villain than a wonder woman villain. With Diana, she just wants to start trouble
    I like Circe as a primary opponent of Diana. I'm sure she's got plans and contingencies to deal with Hippolyta and the Amazons. I'd really like to see some new, original opponents developed for Hippolyta, as well as for Donna Troy and Cassie.

    I've squared away Dark Angel and a one-shot Titan's foe, Perfection, as a couple of Donna's foes, as well as co-opting Mammoth and Shimmer from Titans. She needs more personal villains though and I've been working on that.

    Cassie is even harder to come by for personal villains - she needs a good five to seven original foes herself. For Donna or Cassie, I like to see them fight Wonder villains occasionally, but don't like to see them co-opt them as their primary, personal foes. I've never been excited about transferring the Silver Swan/Vanessa concept or Devastation to Cassie.

  10. #1075
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    20,416

    Default

    Heracles could work as a Cassie villain in a "Cain and Abel" tv tropes dynamic.

    Zeus and Poseidon would be more interesting as Diana and Hippolyta villains.

  11. #1076
    Boisterously Confused
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    So here's a controversial opinion.

    I'm perfectly fine with the idea that Diana isn't nearly as strong as Superman....**As long as she's still just as capable.**

    I've read the arguments for making her Clark's physical equal and I get what Marston was going for, and they're good, solid reasons. But I'm not 100% cool with basing Diana's power off another (male) character. DC is never going to really make any hero stronger than Superman, just as they're never really going to let anyone be faster than the Flash. And in my opinion they shouldn't; DC is a pantheon where each hero is the king/queen of their own domain and specialty. But this means when Superman gets nerfed (like in post-Crisis) so does Diana. When he gets buffed, so does she. She doesn't stand on her own in this regard, she's a mirror of someone else and that someone else gets to set the rules and limits. I'm not cool with that, Diana's no legacy character!

    I'd be perfectly fine saying that Diana is *only* strong enough to throw tanks across a battlefield (which is still stupid strong) and durable enough to shrug off any man-made, hand-held weapon (she deflects bullets because she's not letting some mook actually shoot her! Even if it wont hurt its the principal of the thing!). I'd be fine with her running at the speed of sound, leaping tall buildings in a single bound, and able to "ride air currents" at 100-200 mph.

    I'd be fine with all of that.....but only as long as her reaction time and reflexes still allow her to catch bullets and deflect energy blasts (which, really, means she can still react to speedsters like Barry). If her training and combat skill allowed her to make damaging precision strikes against physically superior foes her strength level wouldn't normally allow her to hurt, I'd be okay with that since it's showing off her talent and ability and not just her muscles. And if her gear helps bring her up to that "top class" level (the armor increases her durability, her blade can cut atoms, her lasso is unbreakable, the invisible jet gets her around quickly, etc) then I don't see her being "less powerful" than Superman (or Shazam or whoever), but merely equally powerful in a different way.

    The way I see it, Diana currently has a distinct advantage over people like Superman in a fight. She's got the same raw power and a ton more skill. In a straight up brawl I think she'd beat Clark at least half the time (and Im being nice to Clark here). I don't want that to change, but I'd be fine if Diana's wins came from talent and ability (and power too, yes, she's not Captain America!) instead of *just* raw power.

    I'd also like to add a few "mythical/god-like" abilities to her arsenal, like being able to hear prayers or travel between earth and mythological dimensions like Olympus, the Island, etc., but this post is long enough already. But getting her a little bit away from the flying brick archetype and building a slightly more unique powerset around her.....wouldn't be the worst thing to happen, in my mind....as long as she remains just as capable and competent as she currently is.
    I might tweak a few things, but yeah, I'm with you. Especially if objects like her tiara, bracelets, and lasso become extensions of her mystical/psionic skills.

  12. #1077
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,657

    Default

    With Zara I do think she should actually get her powers from a real god. Maybe an Egyptian god or another(Sekhmet). Due to her saying she is Arab but also speaks in a french accent. She can easily be mixed. There are Lebanese who are red hairs. With Blue Snow maybe she was part of a cult.

  13. #1078
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    12,679

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I might tweak a few things, but yeah, I'm with you. Especially if objects like her tiara, bracelets, and lasso become extensions of her mystical/psionic skills.
    Man, this opinion isn't turning out to be nearly as controversial as I expected it to be. I figured I'd get all kinds of hate for wanting Diana to be physically weaker.

    Yeah, a few tweaks might be necessary. I haven't sat down and really, thoroughly gone through the idea and how it would affect Diana and her story. But the gear (like the tiara, lasso, etc) would most definitely be a bigger part of her "powerset" in my mind.

    I miss the old robot plane that Diana could control mentally, too. I mean, imagine fighting someone like this, who can throw tanks and catch bullets and cause sonic booms with her speed.....and on top of all that she's one of the greatest fighters in history, her lasso is snapping out like a whip, taking people down, tossing them across the field, whatever, while the sword cuts through everything it touches like butter, and there's a invisible bomber up in the sky somewhere that's laying down fire with ammunition designed to combat super humans. That's a badass fighter with a ton of options at her disposal. I feel like even powerful Leaguers like Hal, Clark, and Barry would be highly challenged by that in a fight.

    Not that Diana should be fighting her friends or anything, but since the comparisons are gonna be made anyway......
    Higher, Faster, Further....More.

    Truth, Justice, and a Better Tomorrow!

    Bridge Four!

  14. #1079
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    5,657

    Default

    I also like how Diana's lasso in Superfriends could be mentally controlled by her or shapeshifted to whatever Diana wanted. I don't know why but I often thought the Lasso's basic abilities should stay the same but other parts could change Like it tells the truth but if someone like Cheetah got in the Lasso will change to whatever the truth is for Cheetah and would either chnage how some of it's powers. Like the Whip can chop people up.

  15. #1080
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    8,163

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    I'd put Doctor Psycho a lot higher on that list. He should score very high both on ideological opposition to Wonder Woman, personal animus against her, and frequency of their encounters.

    As for Circe, I'd much prefer her as a really troublesome and fickle ally than outright enemy.
    I'd probably put him higher than Cale on mine. I put her first because she's gotten more stuff in recent memory so I though of her first. But I don't think he's done enough to warrant being higher than the other three. He's still one of her chief classic antagonists and one of the first after the Big 3 to get usage, but he's still far behind them. Especially as Cheetah is about to get the biggest possible type of exposure with a movie (she may in more than one), and I think Circe is a very likely candidate for the third film's villain.

    IDK, Circe is one of the most prolific and cool villains Diana has, so I don't think the franchise can afford to lose her in that capacity.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •