Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[AmiMizuno]

I'd put them roughly on MCU Captain America levels. They're above human ability, but no so far beyond us they're impossible to defeat.

Able to bend a rifle's barrel, leap across a battlefield, outrun any mortal, keep fighting long after anyone else would've fallen, and defeat half a dozen highly trained soldiers on their own. But not bulletproof, not indomitable. I'd say a typical Amazon should be worth about ten men.

Agreed. One thing I wonder if how tech advance should they be? I meanwhile I get maybe not in warfare they should still not be stuck in ancient times in all areas. I mean if anything if they did have to fight something either doom gate or some form of monster.

[Ascended]

Agreed. One thing I wonder if how tech advance should they be? I meanwhile I get maybe not in warfare they should still not be stuck in ancient times in all areas. I mean if anything if they did have to fight something either doom gate or some form of monster.

Well this goes back to something we've discussed before, and I still think Amazons should be advanced, but not in the same way we are. I'd like to see them using stuff like alchemy, divination, etc. So I want them to be advanced but focused on things we don't. Like, Themyscria shouldn't have cars or rifles as we'd recognize them but automatic slings that fire super-advanced alchemical bombs and air ships instead.

There should be things the Amazons can learn from Man's World just as there's things we can learn from them. Different areas of expertise.

But I'd say if you just look at how effective Amazon technology is at achieving it's goals, it should be as much beyond us as the Amazons themselves are. So while their tech might look radically different and work on completely different theories and scientific practices, an Amazon equivalent to a gun should be ten times more effective than Man's World's counterpart; well beyond us but not so far ahead that it's impossible to counter.

I think we'd also have to take a very hard look at the life the Amazons live. Not only would they develop along different lines but the circumstances of their lives would make a difference too. I find it unlikely that Themyscria has anything for long-distance flight that can match what we have, since they all live on a small island and have no need to create such technology. They also wouldn't have weapons of mass destruction like we do either. They might have something along those lines (gotta deal with Doom's Doorway after all) but nothing on the level of the nukes we have.

[AmiMizuno]

Earth One did a good job of showing us what tech could look like. In terms of guns Earth one shows it it’s more of lasers. I mean what about the motorcycles in Earth one. In terms of plans. What if they did have multiple island. In other runs they have islands out further from the island.

[Tzigone]

Well this goes back to something we've discussed before, and I still think Amazons should be advanced, but not in the same way we are.

Does the island and their desire to defend it lend itself to forcefield technology, do you think? Cleaner energy? We automate a lot of things to give us more leisure time - what have they automated (in farming, or food processing in terms of mills, etc.). Certain other applications will depend on how strong their are and how much need they have to make things take less muscle power. They'll also have much less incentive for really big mass production due their more limited numbers, and could theoretically lend itself to a more artisanal form of business.

[AmiMizuno]

We actually never seen them farm. We have seen them built things but never farming. I think it's hint at some of the energy is magical basic

[Ascended]

Regarding farming, I think the island is likely too small and too dense for large-scale farming. We see the Amazons hunting, and I'm willing to bet that just about every Amazon has a small personal garden or something where they get their veggies from. But I don't think there'd really be room for giant fields full of corn and whatever else; the island is always shown as having highly dense forests and jungles. I'd presume that each house has a small garden of its own, and when one family has a bad crop the neighborhood comes together to help them out.

As for energy.....I'd like to imagine they took the fundamentals of hydro and wind power that ancient Greeks (and surrounding nations) would've had, and have improved those technologies while Man's World went in with fossil fuels. So Amazon hydroelectric and wind power would be way beyond what we have. I don't really see them digging coal or anything yknow? And it's possible they also found a more mystical power source too. Maybe they draw energy from nearby ley lines? But in any case, I'd have windmills and water wheels all over the place.

Forcefields.....I'd be fine with that but I'd rather it be mystical in nature rather than technological. I don't want the Amazons' technology to look like a sci-fi, alien version of our own, I want them to have stuff we don't, built on concepts that have one foot in science and one in magic (like alchemy).

Guns......I'd rather not see them at all, honestly. I think if you run with the idea that all Amazons are roughly "MCU Captain America" strong, then they don't really have any need to develop weapons like guns at all. An Amazon should be able to throw a spear through a tank, and their weapons should be either highly durable metals (unique to the Island) or enchanted (or both), so even threats like Doom's Doorway likely aren't enough to warrant the invention of weapons like firearms, bombs, etc. And even if they do have need for such things, I'd imagine alchemy provides a easier solution for them than inventing black powder and rifles and all the rest of it. So rather than guns I'd have the Amazons armed with alchemical bombs and grenades and such.

We gotta keep in mind, even if they're tasked with guarding the Doorway, the Amazons don't have the same incentive for technological development we do. They have no rival nations or tribes and thus no reason to develop more advanced technologies for defense or economics. As long as they're powerful enough to protect the Doorway, they have little reason to create more efficient weapons of war. Once everyone can live in comfort and have viable amounts of downtime and things like disease and hunger are gone, there's no need to develop more advanced medicinal or agricultural technologies. They'll fine-tune what they have, make improvements over time, yes, but they have no reason and no incentive to endlessly race technology like we do. If they can drive off the occasional cyclops that wandered into their territory, keep the Doorway closed, and keep everyone fed and healthy the only reason to create new and improved technology is boredom.

As for whether the Island is actually Islands, plural.....that would certainly force the Amazons to develop better travel technology but I think, given how dense the forests and jungles are, they'd create air ships or some other form of air-based travel anyway. But even if there's several islands, the Amazons are only going to need short-range travel; they'd never have to invent anything that can cover great distances quickly, and I think that would change how they look at the technology in some pretty fundamental ways.

[AmiMizuno]

I had the idea that they found away to blend light around them from the crystals. I did have a idea that some of their weapons they can store energy and so some of their spears can shoot out blast.

[marhawkman]

Regarding farming, I think the island is likely too small and too dense for large-scale farming. We see the Amazons hunting, and I'm willing to bet that just about every Amazon has a small personal garden or something where they get their veggies from. But I don't think there'd really be room for giant fields full of corn and whatever else; the island is always shown as having highly dense forests and jungles. I'd presume that each house has a small garden of its own, and when one family has a bad crop the neighborhood comes together to help them out.

It's possible they tend orchards of some sort. Perhaps what look like forests to outsiders are old orchards that have not been pruned extensively. A forest composed primarily of things like olive and apple trees would produced useful food and not need intensive cultivation. You'd mainly just need to keep other forms of tree from growing there.

[kjn]

Some minor additions to Ascended's nice thoughts on Amazon civilisation.

Small fields can be very productive, especially if the climate is warm. Parts of the Mediterranean has a year-round growing season, permitting two or even three harvests per year, and the main limitation for agriculture on the island is likely to be water. The Amazons might also use mixed crops in a single field in a way that aren't readily recognised as fields to our eyes, or use the forests for agricultural production as well.

There are different ways to organise agricultural fields; I'm not sure they will have personal gardens per se, though households having "strips" of larger areas is one possibility (it was a common way to organise the fields of a village up to the late 17th century or so in Sweden).

I view the Amazon technology as highly artisanal, and to our eyes magical—but they themselves don't think of it as such, just as they might view and iPhone as magical but we don't think of it as such. An Amazon cloak will be very light, keep you both warm and cool, be waterproof, and likely meld into the environment. But it won't let you fly or turn away blades.

As for transportation, horses are so very Amazonian that they should be the main one. Sailing and rowing boats also fit well, and can easily handle transportation between the main island and any islands around it. Some Amazons might do something similar to hanggliding or use muscle-powered aircraft, though I expect they will mainly take off from clifftops.

[Tzigone]

It's possible they tend orchards of some sort. Perhaps what look like forests to outsiders are old orchards that have not been pruned extensively. A forest composed primarily of things like olive and apple trees would produced useful food and not need intensive cultivation. You'd mainly just need to keep other forms of tree from growing there.

We should probably look at what crops were available when they left man's world (whichever era and region you think they were in), if you want them to take seed with them. If not, then what do we think was native to the island. Obviously, they could try to selectively breed what they had. Most cultures have a staple starch crop, but there are some who don't.

I think they need to have some kind of preservation and storage if they don't have a paradisaical crop. If they all grow the same thing, it's likely if one family has a bad crop, everyone does. So at least a year's reserves might be good, since they can't import food. Unless, of course, fishing can sustain them (bad enough weather might hit the herbivores and go up the food chain, hurting hunting).

Small fields can be very productive, especially if the climate is warm. Parts of the Mediterranean has a year-round growing season, permitting two or even three harvests per year, and the main limitation for agriculture on the island is likely to be water. The Amazons might also use mixed crops in a single field in a way that aren't readily recognised as fields to our eyes, or use the forests for agricultural production as well.

There are different ways to organise agricultural fields; I'm not sure they will have personal gardens per se, though households having "strips" of larger areas is one possibility (it was a common way to organise the fields of a village up to the late 17th century or so in Sweden).

I agree with both of these, though I'm more familiar with feudal structures elsewhere where they would have a strip of field for grain, but still have a household garden (croft) near the home for vegetables.

[Ascended]

Loving the commentary about the gardening and agriculture. I myself know virtually nothing of the topic.

Great points about how the Amazons may grow food in places we wouldn't recognize as a planting field (or whatever the proper term/s are).

And the conversation about them bringing seed with them.....you know, it seems very likely that they've developed their own fruits and vegetables too, unique to the island. Maybe they mashed, I dunno, peaches and apples together and now grow peachles?

As for the danger of having a bad crop.....it dawns on me that this isn't just any island full of immortal warrior philosopher women. This is a magic island blessed by the gods themselves. So I'm just gonna assume that bad crops don't usually happen, unless some other great and powerful, malevolent force is acting against the island's natural inclinations. And if the Amazons are immortal.....they're not gonna starve to death.....they're just gonna be really gods damn hungry until the next crop is ready. Still something I'm sure they'd avoid of course, using the methods y'all have mentioned. But I think we have to remember that their needs aren't like our own, if they're immortal super soldiers.

And Ami's talk about crystals......it got me thinking, in a roundabout way, on the things the Amazons *would* have to invest and improve in. I'm thinking their military and agriculture technologies wouldn't require much advancement (compared to how we've spent the last few thousand years anyway), but what on this paradise of an island *would* force the Amazons to race technology? And one thing I thought of is the medical field. The purple ray is a pretty damn powerful device, and is so unique it seems out of place on the island. But of course the Amazons would have to invest heavily in their medicine! Their main purpose is to guard the Doorway, and there are no new recruits coming to join them. You can't have your fighting force slowly whittled down over time as a soldier trips and falls down a cliff here, or two accidentally kill each other sparring, or one stabs her own eye out falling asleep on patrol, etc. And in this society that values competition and combat skill so heavily, who would want to live an immortal life not being able to be a part of that? Certainly the Amazons have some who've been handicapped (and those women are still valued) but I imagine being crippled is an Amazon's worst nightmare.

And I do like Ami's idea of having the ray, at least, tied to crystals. Not a visual theme I'd overuse, as that's a little too Krypton-ish for me, but for the really crazy, badass high tech stuff, like the ray? Yeah, something like....crystallized ley line energy, or divine run-off from Olympus or something? Yeah, I'm down with that. That's got a certain Silver Age fantastical fun that I like.

Also....I never understood. Why are there kangaroos?

[AmiMizuno]

It's never explained where the animals come from. Kangas are just larger kangaroos. Maybe and this is just my weird weird theory. At one point when all countries were together, the Kangas travels to where Paradise Island would be. Now in terms of lighting. I can't see how they wouldn't come up with a way to make sure their versions of fire never dieds out. Somewhere hybird between fire and light bulb

Now and I know the Amazons have to remind small but would it really be that bad for a least one group to two groups of kids be born doing the time of Diana? Just to reintroduce Mala and Io. Maybe a few girls from new 52.

[kjn]

For myself, I'd like the main crop for the Amazons to be barley, for its mythological and historical significance, but any informed choice from writers would likely be fine. But add in lots of legumes, root vegetables, fruits, leafy greens, nuts, and so on. Fish and game would likely be part of their diet, but supplements (probably no more than 10% of daily chaloric intake).

I'm not sure feudal societies would be a good inspiration for any part of Amazon society: I don't view them as living in one. One good inspiration for their agricultural practices and organisation might be the Native Americans, like the Iroquois, but there are probably many more.

As for technology and innovation, the drivers would be very different than in our world. Perpetual education and self-actualisation should be everywhere in their society. I want the "normal" Amazon to be able to fill most any function or do any job in their society from a viewpoint of skill and knowledge.

As for the kangas, I think they were a quirky idea of Marston's that stuck. I think some later stories say they are of extraterrestrial origin, but can't say exactly where it came from first.

[AmiMizuno]

Thinking about farming why not have them being able with magic using seeds that grow quickly. Not only that but gardening for just food in the main area for all Amazons to use. It could be a floating area

[AmiMizuno]

I'm curious we see that the amazons are still warriors. I have to problem with that. However, I would like to see the Amazons do have to deal with certain creatures or maybe other Amazons who are aggressive. A few off branch Amazons. I want there to be peace but Also show why they still due to be warriors. There is the doom gate or Ares. But how about something new. What other mythical creatures or maybe even other beings could there be conflicts with the Amazons?