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  1. #1891
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    My opinion: I’m tired of Diana as goddess. I want more focus on Diana as a person and Wonder Woman as hero and JLA member. I think the goddess angle has been played out over the last five or six years.

  2. #1892
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bretmaverick2 View Post
    My opinion: I’m tired of Diana as goddess. I want more focus on Diana as a person and Wonder Woman as hero and JLA member. I think the goddess angle has been played out over the last five or six years.
    I never wanted her to be a goddess in the first place, so I'm right there with you.

  3. #1893
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    Quote Originally Posted by bretmaverick2 View Post
    My opinion: I’m tired of Diana as goddess. I want more focus on Diana as a person and Wonder Woman as hero and JLA member. I think the goddess angle has been played out over the last five or six years.
    The last time we had Diana as a goddess was in the Byrne run where she died and was reborn as the Goddess of Truth. The book has had a lot of problems but not focusing on her as a hero or JLA member isn't one of them.

  4. #1894
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I'm saying that man made things like bullets, bombs, swords, knives, etc... shouldn't harm her to begin with. If the bomb your talking about was the one at Etta's cousin's wedding, then that shouldn't harm her. Like... a regular sword made from steel should break on impact with her skin, but like a sword made from demon metal or something should be a real threat to her. She should be able to know the difference.

    The Hercules RIP off was more speaking to the origin and her personality in the Nu52, not things like invulnerability or godhood. Yea, she was the Goddess of Truth, and then War in the Nu52. I mean that I feel Diana has evolved past being just another amazon, her origin makes her different from the others, enough to be way above them in abilities. Yet she doesn't control aspects of the universe like Zeus or Ares.
    I mean Marston wanted to her at first be like the regular amazons but had her be different has her time in the man's world became longer. Also, Shouldn't Diana earn the title and not it already be made for her? I like the idea of Diana earning it rather than here you go. I mean so many Greek myths do have humans becoming gods. So wouldn't it be redundant? Diana has many times shown to fight the Gods without being one. Also she could be a God if Hippolyta is the daughter of Ares. In the Greek myths, Ares and a minor Goddess had Hippolyta.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 03-29-2020 at 11:23 AM.

  5. #1895
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I mean Marston wanted to her at first be like the regular amazons but had her be different has her time in the man's world became longer. Also, Shouldn't Diana earn the title and not it already be made for her? I like the idea of Diana earning it rather than here you go. I mean so many Greek myths do have humans becoming gods. So wouldn't it be redundant? Diana has many times shown to fight the Gods without being one. Also she could be a God if Hippolyta is the daughter of Ares. In the Greek myths, Ares and a minor Goddess had Hippolyta.
    See, I think she does earn it. She spends most of her life on Themyscira, half of it learning and educating herself on being a leader and the other half training. She takes the call to action to leave and face off against Ares, defeats him, and stays most of the time in man's world as a superhero and a respected diplomat. On top of all her other adventures. I think you are right she shouldn't just be handed the title, I don't think she should even know until another God tells her. Diana being a Goddess, to me, is just the culmination of everything she has done and what everyone says about her. It shouldn't completely change her character or make her feel greater than others.

    I view Hippolyta as Ares's daughter, I think that was said somewhere in Post-Crisis? So, Diana being something greater than a Demi, but less than a Full God like Ares makes sense to me.
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  6. #1896
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bretmaverick2 View Post
    My opinion: I’m tired of Diana as goddess. I want more focus on Diana as a person and Wonder Woman as hero and JLA member. I think the goddess angle has been played out over the last five or six years.
    I agree, but I don't think Diana being a Goddess should fully affect that.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  7. #1897
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I don't know with the fact the contest is important. She is very powerful and this isn't fair to see that she earned it fairly. But the thing is New 52 changed that. Every time they try to make her bigger than that it focuses it that. I often thought that maybe Amazons or at least the first generation amazons should be Ares daughters and were somewhere Demi goddesses status. Because of Ares

    My idea for the Amazons at least the first few Amazons. Were that the rest are regular women wanting somewhere safe. When they get to the Island many women who were in Gaea womb where reborn. I feel maybe to explain Gaea's womb will take women who were abused and be reborn. The same should be with children.
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 03-29-2020 at 01:09 PM.

  8. #1898
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I mean so many Greek myths do have humans becoming gods. So wouldn't it be redundant? Diana has many times shown to fight the Gods without being one. Also she could be a God if Hippolyta is the daughter of Ares. In the Greek myths, Ares and a minor Goddess had Hippolyta.
    As far as I'm concerned, she's at least a demigod anyway. Half a pantheon of gods bestowed her their gifts when they brought her to life from clay. She's at minimum a demigod.

    I liked the God of Truth concept, if not the story itself (only read half of it, which didn't help). Didn't care for her as God of War but I did enjoy some of the concepts and ideas Azzarello was playing with there.

    But is it redundant? Sure, if Diana was Greek myth. But since she's American superhero, her godhood status makes her more unique. I mean, how many major name characters are gods? Thor, Darkseid.....okay, I'm actually struggling to think of anyone else, other than Thor and Darkseid's supporting casts and enemies. We've got plenty of people who draw power from gods or things that might as well be gods, from Animal Man to Shazam to Vixen. But very few A-list characters who are legit divine.
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  9. #1899
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    She is not longer clay. This is why I think maybe the gods bestowing her gifts is good enough. I mean mean with Diana having many mythical items having god levels. She doesn’t need go be a god to be unique. Diana being a goddess doesn’t make her anymore unique with or without. She already comes from divine background.

  10. #1900
    Astonishing Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    As far as I'm concerned, she's at least a demigod anyway. Half a pantheon of gods bestowed her their gifts when they brought her to life from clay. She's at minimum a demigod.
    Not to me. To me, she is just an Amazon. If "just" can be used for those so awesome. With no other gifts than all the other Amazons have. The rest is her skill and training and effort. Or, at least it would be if I had my way. Of course, I'd also have only Aphrodite bring her to life.

  11. #1901
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I mean I wouldn't mind if that after she won the trial than she is blessed by the Gods. Then she is a demi god.

  12. #1902
    The Last Dragon masterwitcher88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I mean I wouldn't mind if that after she won the trial than she is blessed by the Gods. Then she is a demi god.
    Rucka did this in year one and it both makes sense and doesn't. From my head canon, the gods give Diana life so, she at this point is a regular amazon. Now, amazons possess super strength, speed, etc... so it's nothing to slouch over. After the contest, the gods bless Diana once she is on mans world, basically a power boost before her god fight.
    Zaldrīzes Buzdari Iksos Daor

  13. #1903

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The last time we had Diana as a goddess was in the Byrne run where she died and was reborn as the Goddess of Truth.
    Azzarello had her kill Ares (at his insistence, to save herself and others) and "thus" become God of War. Although we've seen other gods in the Wonder Woman mythos get killed, and it doesn't usually lead to their killers taking on their godly roles.

    Except: Apparently Donna killed the (ever-weakening) Fates, and took on their role, becoming the Goddess of Fate. And it turned out that it was only because the Fates were weak that gods could be killed, and so as soon as Donna took over - empowered - Apollo and Ares immediately returned from the dead. But this didn't happen to, just for example, Zeus, when he was killed. He just died. Also, the idea of Donna being Fate was never examined in any way, and quickly forgotten.

    All of which made no sense to me.
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  14. #1904
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Bifrost View Post
    Azzarello had her kill Ares (at his insistence, to save herself and others) and "thus" become God of War. Although we've seen other gods in the Wonder Woman mythos get killed, and it doesn't usually lead to their killers taking on their godly roles.

    Except: Apparently Donna killed the (ever-weakening) Fates, and took on their role, becoming the Goddess of Fate. And it turned out that it was only because the Fates were weak that gods could be killed, and so as soon as Donna took over - empowered - Apollo and Ares immediately returned from the dead. But this didn't happen to, just for example, Zeus, when he was killed. He just died. Also, the idea of Donna being Fate was never examined in any way, and quickly forgotten.

    All of which made no sense to me.
    Diana becoming the God of War was so inconsequential it might as well not have happened. She didn't really do anything that she wasn't already doing.

  15. #1905

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I view Hippolyta as Ares's daughter, I think that was said somewhere in Post-Crisis?
    When John Byrne took over Wonder Woman, he set about overturning the continuity established by other writers (not just for Diana, but for characters like Etrigan as well) - not by justifying it within the story, but just by proclaiming it. The editors also let him do things they didn't let other writers do, like having Hippolyta literally change history (which is something heroes are not supposed to do, unless they are undoing a change made by a villain), and put a Wonder Woman in the single-Earth JSA in WW II.

    (When Crisis on Infinite Earths was going on, they first told Roy Thomas that, after it was over, he could have his JSA and All-Star Squadron and Infinity, Inc. in their own separate world, which would have included a Wonder Woman in the JSA and Hippolyta Trevor remaining Diana's daughter. But at the last second they changed their minds. But Roy's a trooper, so he just went on the create the "Golden Age" Fury and her daughter, the Infinity, Inc. Fury - two characters I absolutely loved, and am sorry to see wiped from continuity. Who knows if they'll be back in 5G?)

    Anyway, as part of this: when Diana was killed in Byrne's story - which, in theory, was still working with the Perez origin - Ares suddenly bursts out: "I'm Hippolyta's father, so that's my dead granddaughter there!", or words to that effect. Which is true in some versions of the original Greek myths, but has never been the case in Wonder Woman. And everybody just - accepts it without a word. No "wait a minute, that doesn't make sense!" Or "You are? We never knew that!" Or "Well, why didn't you bring this up at a previous time, like when you were trying to kill Diana?" It's just suddenly true.

    At which point Zeus says (and I'm paraphrasing) "That means she's my great-granddaughter, so I shouldn't just leave her dead!" (As if Zeus didn't have tons of mortal great-grandchildren, most of whom died without much attention from him.) "The easiest way to handle this is to make her a goddess. Shazam!" And she is brought back to life as the Goddess of Truth. (He didn't really say "Shazam." I'm thinking of Gomer Pyle.)

    At this point the new "fact" that Ares was Hippolyta's father had apparently served its purpose. I'm not sure it was ever mentioned again, even while Byrne was still writing the comic. Certainly I have no memory of Hipployta and Ares trying to figure out what it meant to their relationship, now that she knew he was her father.

    If you're getting the impression that I wasn't bowled over (in a positive way) by this storyline, I won't rush to disagree.

    But that's just me.
    Doctor Bifrost

    "If Roy G. Bivolo had seen some B&W pencil sketches, his whole life would have turned out differently." http://doctorbifrost.blogspot.com/

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