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  1. #4201
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Then at the very least don't call it sexist because as I pointed out, these aren't sexist writers, and DC doesn't care about how strong Diana is in a non canon digital first anthology series.
    DC does not care about WW period. They sure do better for other charactets. You will never see the likes of superman, green lantern etc being portrayed as such weaklinks.

  2. #4202
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    …you’ve seen what Marvel has done to their female characters who are in Wonder Woman’s class, right? Both in the comics and the movies?

    -Jean Grey and Storm: Both cool characters, both de-powered at one point for long periods of time. Movie: both sidelined heavily for Wolverine and turned into his love interests.

    -Rouge: Actually had a cool backstory in the comics. Movie: Wolverines protégé

    -Mystique (who’s not in Diana’s league but is popular): Was her own independent character but was turned into Magneto’s lackey and love interest (?) in the movies

    -Captain Marvel (Ms.Marvel): Was put in a team book because her first series didn’t sell well, was raped in Avengers, powered but abandoned by Marvel in space, de-powered and sent back to Earth where she became a drunk.

    Only became an A list because someone put in the time and the work to make her that (that same someone who is writing Historia).

    Also the reason she doesn’t go out of print is because Marvel has to regularly release a title with the Captain Marvel name to keep the trademark. Movie: Was de-powered for 90% of it.

    - Black Widow (also not Diana's league but popular, got a few more of those coming up): Comic wise, has done alright. Movie: A quote from her own actress, she was treated as a “piece of ass” in her debut. Marvel refused to make a movie of her until recently because their are sexist pigs everywhere in control of media.

    - Wanda: Movie wise she's honestly one of the most developed MCU character because she's allowed to feel things. Comic wise has been tossed all over the place, her backstory is close to Donna Troy levels of retcon.

    -Nebula: actually did a good job in the movies.

    -Gimora: I don’t read many GotG comics so idk… Movies: Starlord’s love interest in the sequel, they did manage to keep her main arc about her relationship with her family so there's that.

    I don’t know where this idea is coming from that Wonder Woman would do better at Marvel, or assuming that Marvel is more inclusive than WB, because they both had sexist, racist jerks in charge of their companies for decades.

    Maybe now she would do better, but Marvel didn’t trust female lead superhero franchises enough to do anything with them until WB Wonder Woman movie was successful. They had all that time to take the lead and they didn’t. Owning Wonder Woman at any point prior to now wouldn't have changed that, and it's not like they don't heavily nerf their own characters compared to the comics either.

    Edit: I hate when CBR turns my message into soup, lol.
    Current marvel with disney involved would give WW a better treatment. Proving by how they do better with female characters now.

  3. #4203
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    You don't have to sugarcoat the problem, because there are plenty of historic problems with how DC treats the WW IP and they should be discussed. But it also doesn't need to be brought up in EVERY thread multiple times either. Otherwise it comes across as spamming, not discussion, which isn't enjoyable for anyone.

    And the posters who say "storytelling over powers" are usually just saying it in response to the complaints about feats. The reverse posts wouldn't come up as much otherwise I imagine.




    Not to mention some of the things they do to the civilian female characters, like their hate on for Mary Jane Watson and determination to get rid of her.

    Marvel would treat her like trash, if they got her I doubt they'd prioritize her over their own females at this point. She'd fall behind Sue Storm and Jean Grey in importance, and they don't get consistent benefits either.
    Trackrecord proves marvel treats female characters better now. Specially on the silver screen. Weak woman wished she could be a heavy hitter in the dceu. 30 tons tank remains her best feat. Pathetically weak. While wanda, CM actuslly get powerful feats.

  4. #4204
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rightoya View Post
    I am not sure that he would fare better, because i don't think DC is that sexist anymore, incompetent Wonder Woman writers would be probably still incompetent DC Wonder Man writers.



    I do think mystical41 is hyper focussed on feats but i have never seen any evidence that making Wonder Woman less powerful or outright weak makes her stories any better, i would even say there is more evidence for the opposite, but to be fair that might be related to the concept that a writer who don't cares about Wonder Woman probably not portrays her as powerful either and don't means someone couldn't write good stories with a weak Wonder Woman.

    And i think what agitated mystical41 so much now, was this extremely stupid CBR list:

    https://www.cbr.com/dc-characters-wo...an-never-beat/

    Full of odd choices with even more odd explanations, factually wrong claims, and of course Superman if not even all Kryptonians somehow is just too overwhelmingly powerful and would destroy the outclassed Wonder Woman. Although that is just a guess based on the timing, tell me if i am wrong mystical41?
    It is not that list in particular. It is the general atmosphere for the character that has gotten worse in the last 10 years. I mean how come some people here do not see it? She has been super weak in most appearances of the last decade. She feels hella fragile and weak. What can she do now that rhe typical average super human stats character can't do? The standard has gone super low.

  5. #4205
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    The grass is always going to look greener on the other side.

    That said, Marvel Studios define Marvel now and they are more willing than DC to take risks and translate comic book concepts to the big screen. Do they change stuff? Of course but it has the feeling of an alternate live action Marvel universe. Have they messed up? Yes, absolutely. But they also made Gamora, Nebula, Carol Danvers and Black Widow into house hold names, gave Peggy Carter a 2 season tv show (she was barely a footnote in the comics) and once old dinosaurs like Ike Perlmutter were sidelined we got CM, Black Widow, the Netflix side did a better Jessica Jones than the comic book Jessica Jones and soon we are going to get She Hulk, Ms Marvel, Iron Heart, Monica Rambeu in the CM2, America Chavez, Kate Bishop, Stature, all building up to a full blown Young Avengers/Champions team. Gee, I wonder why people want their faves to go to Marvel. And for the record, I don't want Wonder Woman to end up with Disney/Marvel but I think she deserves a better home than WB/DC. If another company were to get the WW IP, it should be Netflix.

  6. #4206
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    DC does not care about WW period. They sure do better for other charactets. You will never see the likes of superman, green lantern etc being portrayed as such weaklinks.
    Just don't call it sexist when it's clearly not.

  7. #4207
    Mighty Member mystical41's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Just don't call it sexist when it's clearly not.
    I think it partially is.

  8. #4208
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The grass is always going to look greener on the other side.

    That said, Marvel Studios define Marvel now and they are more willing than DC to take risks and translate comic book concepts to the big screen. Do they change stuff? Of course but it has the feeling of an alternate live action Marvel universe. Have they messed up? Yes, absolutely. But they also made Gamora, Nebula, Carol Danvers and Black Widow into house hold names, gave Peggy Carter a 2 season tv show (she was barely a footnote in the comics) and once old dinosaurs like Ike Perlmutter were sidelined we got CM, Black Widow, the Netflix side did a better Jessica Jones than the comic book Jessica Jones and soon we are going to get She Hulk, Ms Marvel, Iron Heart, Monica Rambeu in the CM2, America Chavez, Kate Bishop, Stature, all building up to a full blown Young Avengers/Champions team. Gee, I wonder why people want their faves to go to Marvel.
    I find both studio's to be unwilling to take risks, or...take the same level of risk-taking I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    And for the record, I don't want Wonder Woman to end up with Disney/Marvel but I think she deserves a better home than WB/DC. If another company were to get the WW IP, it should be Netflix.
    Netflix would do a better adaptation but the effects would be garbo and they have a tendency to cancel all their good stuff after one season.

    Give WW to Amazon (heh). They have the time and the budget.
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 07-29-2021 at 03:34 PM.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

  9. #4209
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    It's come to the point where I feel this is appropriate for this thread:

    Wonder Woman is a great superhero and while she could be respected more by DC, I've been around through so, so much worse.

    The main reason I don't post on this board (which I do lurk on a lot) is primarily because it gets so exhausting talking about power levels it drains all enthusiasm.

    Yes. I'm a Superman fan. I've never engaged in a conversation on "remember when he benched the moon" unless it's part of a joke because while cool, that's all spectacle and there's nothing much else to say.

    But over here, every thread is about who she slapped around recently and why that's the most important discussion point for a woman who wants us all to be better people and accept one another. Yes. These are superhero books, but being so singularly focused on conflict and demanding a woman lose her role so a man can have it under any circumstances has gone so far astray from anything she represents that the entire conversation has grown toxic.

    If the most interesting thing about heroes is their feats, you don't care about the character, you care about backing the strongest horse. There's my controversial take.

    Yes. I want a strong Diana. Any time I've bothered to do anything with the character, even for fun, I envision her as on the top weight class of DC, but as with Clark I don't need them benching a planet or mountain all the time to prove it.

    Shit like getting one-shot in Injustice was decried on every facet of this board and fandom across multiple sites I go to except by people being misogynist themselves. Nobody likes that shit. Superman fans don't, most of us like Diana a lot too and know how much we hate seeing characters job to prop up another.

    I'm also reminded of her book being the assigned book ghetto a decade ago and taken from Rucka without him knowing, given to someone who never wrote comics not long after and then to Simone who kept having to deal with bullshit and finally to JMS who basically admitted she was just girl Superman to him and rewrote shit rather than learn.

    This was just a little over a decade ago, and just in her own book. It was worse in other books and media.

    This is decidedly a better time.
    Last edited by Robanker; 07-29-2021 at 04:43 PM.
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  10. #4210
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    It's come to the point where I feel this is appropriate for this thread:

    Wonder Woman is a great superhero and while she could be respected more by DC, I've been around through so, so much worse.
    Yeah. We have at least one one live action movie that is unanimously agreed upon to be good and they are sticking with Gal's WW even after the disappointment of WW84, which is easy to pivot from. She showed up in Space Jam 2. And she has the biggest influx of books coming out that I believe she's ever had all at once coming in October.

    We're sitting pretty good compared to when I was first getting into the character: one monthly title that was hijacked by OYL/Amazons Attack and the only other media option being the DCAU.

  11. #4211
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yeah. We have at least one one live action movie that is unanimously agreed upon to be good and they are sticking with Gal's WW even after the disappointment of WW84, which is easy to pivot from. She showed up in Space Jam 2. And she has the biggest influx of books coming out that I believe she's ever had all at once coming in October.

    We're sitting pretty good compared to when I was first getting into the character: one monthly title that was hijacked by OYL/Amazons Attack and the only other media option being the DCAU.
    Don't forget when they were trying to pair her off with Superman who was married, Batman, Aquaman and a couple of love interests back in her book all while wearing a thong in the 90s prior during her "let's copy what we did for Supes (dying) and Bats (edgy replacement) to fix her" phase. There were bright spots to be sure, but my god if I could go back then and tell younger Robanker it's going to be a lot easier breaking into the Wonderverse in the future, I'd have beat Old Robanker from the Future up for lying to me.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  12. #4212
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    DC does not care about WW period. They sure do better for other charactets. You will never see the likes of superman, green lantern etc being portrayed as such weaklinks.
    I think that was VERY true of Dan DiDidiot and Geoff Johns. Their choices spell out their disposition on the character in 35m neon letters. But there is hope that this new regime will be different.

  13. #4213
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I think that was VERY true of Dan Didio and Geoff Johns. Their choices spell out their disposition on the character in 35m neon letters. But there is hope that this new regime will be different.
    Both of them are among the worst influences on the character, absolutely.
    Last edited by Robanker; 07-29-2021 at 04:51 PM.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  14. #4214
    Beyond Good. Beyond Evil. Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Yeah. We have at least one one live action movie that is unanimously agreed upon to be good and they are sticking with Gal's WW even after the disappointment of WW84, which is easy to pivot from. She showed up in Space Jam 2. And she has the biggest influx of books coming out that I believe she's ever had all at once coming in October.

    We're sitting pretty good compared to when I was first getting into the character: one monthly title that was hijacked by OYL/Amazons Attack and the only other media option being the DCAU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Don't forget when they were trying to pair her off with Superman who was married, Batman, Aquaman and a couple of love interests back in her book all while wearing a thong in the 90s prior during her "let's copy what we did for Supes (dying) and Bats (edgy replacement) to fix her" phase. There were bright spots to be sure, but my god if I could go back then and tell younger Robanker it's going to be a lot easier breaking into the Wonderverse in the future, I'd have beat Old Robanker from the Future up for lying to me.
    Good stuff, like I said sometimes it's a matter of perspective.

  15. #4215
    Fishy Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Yeah, I like Diana and I don't want to see her die.
    ~I just keep swimming through these threads~

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