Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Agent Z]

I don't think it can be ignored, but the way it is now it's just not a major factor for Wonder Woman and those thought to be her major supporting characters. She, Donna and Cassie use magical tools along with non-magical, mortal supporting characters like Steve and Etta don't use it, the Amazons live in a mystical setting but aren't magic users themselves aside from Magala, who was gone 2-3 reboots ago, etc.

I think if writers want more magical stuff beyond Circe stories, some new characters would have to be introduced.



Why? Because you don't like the Golden Age stories?
We really don't need to be reminded it isn't the Golden Age anymore, but people can still like or prefer some of the stuff from that era. There are plenty of dated ideas there we don't need to see return (we all have an idea which ones, the same ones prevalent throughout a lot of golden age material) but plenty of it could still work as is or be updated the same as the silver, bronze or even early modern age stories.

Most of the resistance I see is that it's old and not tied too much to Greek myth, neither of which is especially convincing.

I admit, that was uncalled for of me. I apologize.

[SiegePerilous02]

I admit, that was uncalled for of me. I apologize.

Mine came across a little harsher than it needed to be, so I apologize as well.

Everyone's passionate about WW-related stuff here!

[Mel Dyer]

Google up Carol Strickland's website. It's a VOLCANO of controversial ideas about Wonder Woman!

She's one of us - dare I say the best of us - and she is a WW historian and culture journalist, unparalled. As a postor in some two or three Wonder fan e-communities, she was generous, supportive, encouraging, diplomatic...best of all, compassionate.

I learned so much from her about WW - every era - and about comics, and she's given so much to all of us, WW fans. Check her out, and you'll be a better fan and a better steward of our community, if you do.

No links. No pressure.

[Mel Dyer]

As I support the TWO-comic solution, I think your discussion raises a timely question. I think a dark fantasy toned WW monthly, based on Paradise Island and drowning in Amazons, swordplay, myth and magic, can last, with fans...attract a few new ones. I think it could be sustainable.

Still want my other WW monthly, based in Man's World, with an on-going narrative, primarily driven by superheroics, ..AND with mortal supporting cast and rogues gallery.

Being written as clones of more popular and better villains is not going to help them;. If anything, it will just make them seem even more inferior. If people want to read about Galactus, Doom, Luthor and Deathstroke, they'll read about those characters in the books they appear in, not look to WW for cheap knockoffs...

How do you know this?

Marvel's X-Men is a knockoff of DC's Doom Patrol. DC's Firestorm is a knockoff of Marvel's Human Torch. Marvel's Hawkeye is a clone of DC's Green Arrow. DC's Hawkman is a clone of a popular Flash Gordon character, and you could argue that Warner's movie Wonder Woman is a clone of Universal's Xena, who is a clone of Howard's Conan and 1970s TV Wonder Woman. Comic books clone popular characters, all the time, ..and to great commercial success!

There's nothing wrong with seeing WW pitted against myth-inspired antagonists, depending on the story. Doesn't mean the non-myth rogues have to be dismissed or discarded. Taking a second look at Circe, after years of rallying for her indefinite exclusion from the WW comic, taught me that.

No, I don't think Rucka's more combat-oriented Poison Alpha, a Galactus-like Adjudicator or a Doomish Doctor Cyber ..is going to hurt anything. Comic fans historically love copycat characters. Why should the WW comic be any different?

[AmiMizuno]

Been thinking. What if Diana did start ar Marston University? I mean unlike the other trinity we don't know anything about her adopted city. IT's always other places never in the city she is living in. What does she do that? How does she get along? We introduce Nessie and her family. With how things are set up Diana is a foregin exchange student. Due to what Gateway is most where Gateway is know of the Amazons. I feel like unlike other places this is where a lot of myths are safe to be. A safe haven. We need to stick to a cast.

[Jackalope89]

Diana doesn’t really have her own editor. If any of you were the editor of Wonder Woman. What would be some rules to make should Diana is more consistent?


Also since it’s a bit cliche to go with Zeus. If Diana have to have a father. Still within the Greek myths , who would it be?

A bit late to the table on this one, and it is something I have given thought to before (there are more problems than being cliche with Zeus as the father), but perhaps one of the better Gods. Maybe even one of the Demi-Gods, depending on who. Perhaps Apollo, the God of Music, Archery, and Truth (among other things, of course).

[Mel Dyer]

Been thinking. What if Diana did start ar Marston University? I mean unlike the other trinity we don't know anything about her adopted city. IT's always other places never in the city she is living in. What does she do that? How does she get along? We introduce Nessie and her family. With how things are set up Diana is a foregin exchange student. Due to what Gateway is most where Gateway is know of the Amazons. I feel like unlike other places this is where a lot of myths are safe to be. A safe haven. We need to stick to a cast.

I love your 'city of the weird' idea, Mizuno. I love it, because it grows out of Diana's immigrant story, giving it a life of its own. I also like the idea of Diana's city being a rest stop or safe house for travelers from other weird places.

And no, I don't think it takes anything away from Themyscira. If everything important or she is is going to happen on PI, Diana may as well go back and stay there.

WW needs TWO comics. One for the Island and the Amazons...another for everything and everyone else.

[kjn]

As I support the TWO-comic solution, I think your discussion raises a timely question. I think a dark fantasy toned WW monthly, based on Paradise Island and drowning in Amazons, swordplay, myth and magic, can last, with fans...attract a few new ones. I think it could be sustainable.

In a way, Wonder Woman has two comics right now, but the other one happens to be called Justice League Dark. It's maybe not based on Paradise Island or drowning in Amazons, but it has everything else you mentioned: dark fantasy (even straight up horror at times), swordplay, myth, and magic.

[Agent Z]

How do you know this?

Marvel's X-Men is a knockoff of DC's Doom Patrol. DC's Firestorm is a knockoff of Marvel's Human Torch. Marvel's Hawkeye is a clone of DC's Green Arrow. DC's Hawkman is a clone of a popular Flash Gordon character, and you could argue that Warner's movie Wonder Woman is a clone of Universal's Xena, who is a clone of Howard's Conan and 1970s TV Wonder Woman. Comic books clone popular characters, all the time, ..and to great commercial success!

There's nothing wrong with seeing WW pitted against myth-inspired antagonists, depending on the story. Doesn't mean the non-myth rogues have to be dismissed or discarded. Taking a second look at Circe, after years of rallying for her indefinite exclusion from the WW comic, taught me that.

No, I don't think Rucka's more combat-oriented Poison Alpha, a Galactus-like Adjudicator or a Doomish Doctor Cyber ..is going to hurt anything. Comic fans historically love copycat characters. Why should the WW comic be any different?

I know this based on experience. Firestorm is not as popular as the Human Torch (a character that is part of a brand that has been struggling for decades). The Doom Patrol never reached the heights of the X-Men's popularity and anyway Doom Patrol came out first. Hawkeye regularly struggles in popularity. Calling Wonder Woman, even the movie version, a clone of Xena is laughable given Diana existed first for far longer and if anything, Xena is a clone of WW.

So yeah being seen as a derivative of other characters is not in fact helpful to comic characters. And this is just with characters from different companies. Trying to make Poison popular by having her ape Deathstroke is just going to fall flat on its face.

[kjn]

I know this based on experience. Firestorm is not as popular as the Human Torch (a character that is part of a brand that has been struggling for decades). The Doom Patrol never reached the heights of the X-Men's popularity and anyway Doom Patrol came out first. Hawkeye regularly struggles in popularity. Calling Wonder Woman, even the movie version, a clone of Xena is laughable given Diana existed first for far longer and if anything, Xena is a clone of WW.

I see very little similarity between Xena and Diana. If they were male characters, no one would say anything about any creative relationship between the two.

If one is to look at the forerunners of Xena, it is much more fruitful to look at the early pulp adventures: Jirel of Joiry by CL Moore, Dark Agnes de Chastillon by Robert E Howard, or Marvel's Red Sonja.

This is also partially why I have trouble with the term Xenafication with regards to Wonder Woman. It's a term that describes a real process (Wonder Woman getting more associated with her sword, and becoming more violent), but the tropes that are played up are in no way unique to Xena.

[Harpsikord]

WW needs TWO comics. One for the Island and the Amazons...another for everything and everyone else.

The Wonder Woman comics rightfully deserve an expansion in general - I'd keep the current WW title as is and then reintroduce Sensation Comics as a Themyscira-based "team" book featuring Diana, Donna, Cassie, Hippolyta, Artemis, Nubia, etc.

Otherwise I'd like to see solo titles or maxi series for Donna, Cassie, and Artemis.

[Agent Z]

I see very little similarity between Xena and Diana. If they were male characters, no one would say anything about any creative relationship between the two.

If one is to look at the forerunners of Xena, it is much more fruitful to look at the early pulp adventures: Jirel of Joiry by CL Moore, Dark Agnes de Chastillon by Robert E Howard, or Marvel's Red Sonja.

This is also partially why I have trouble with the term Xenafication with regards to Wonder Woman. It's a term that describes a real process (Wonder Woman getting more associated with her sword, and becoming more violent), but the tropes that are played up are in no way unique to Xena.

In fairness, the TV Tropes page does acknowledge that. The term was created because Xena is one of the best known examples of female fighters in pop culture.

[Tzigone]

reintroduce Sensation Comics as a Themyscira-based "team" book featuring Diana, Donna, Cassie, Hippolyta, Artemis, Nubia, etc

I don't think Cassie belongs on the Themyscira - she just doesn't have the same connection to the place. I like her in the regular world. Bring back her friend Georgia (but only if Cassie is still in high school).

Otherwise I'd like to see solo titles or maxi series for Donna, Cassie, and Artemis.

Would be nice. Maybe test run minis to see if they sell first. Cassie had a previous mini, didn't she?

WW needs TWO comics. One for the Island and the Amazons...another for everything and everyone else.

This reminds me of letters pages in old Batman comics (1970s, maybe?) - some people wanted costumed villains, and some regular criminals, and one suggestion was to divide them up by book, with regular criminals in 'Tec and super villains in Batman.

[Harpsikord]

I don't think Cassie belongs on the Themyscira - she just doesn't have the same connection to the place. I like her in the regular world. Bring back her friend Georgia (but only if Cassie is still in high school).

My thought is that she could be there entirely just for the team or to get closer to Diana and/or the other Amazon's. Cassie is Diana's niece, that should be connection enough.

Would be nice. Maybe test run minis to see if they sell first. Cassie had a previous mini, didn't she?

She did! I'm not sure how it did, but I know that Donna had an event series in the mid-00s that did rather well - and now her star is rising thanks to the Titans show.

[Psy-lock]

Google up Carol Strickland's website. It's a VOLCANO of controversial ideas about Wonder Woman!

I really liked her ideas for Donna's Post-Crisis origin, making her a parallel universe counterpart to Diana instead of a mirror twin.Though I personally prefer the original rescued orphan origin.