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  1. #3976
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Of the prominent female writers on WW, we've had Simone of course and Murchison as the OG female writer. Other than that, the only significant female writers of note on this title (which is pretty bad when you think about it, that we've had so few) we've had Mindy Newell working with Perez, Meredith Finch, Jodi Picoult and G. Willow Wilson. Even if the latter three turned in sucky work, I don't think we need to attribute it to some internalized sexism. At least with Picoult and Wilson, that doesn't seem fair when looking at their entire body of work. It's just not a character (maybe even a genre?) that generally suits them.

    I don't think we have anything to worry about with DeConnick either, as far as the Amazons go.
    I feel this emboldened part is probably more emblematic of sexism in DC in regards to WW than stuff from the woman writers who did get on the book.
    Last edited by Gaius; 06-08-2021 at 07:23 PM. Reason: clarity

  2. #3977
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Yeah really, she pointed out sexism in comics back in the 90's with her blog.

    I also don't think Willison or Tamaki have ever written an ongoing male lead superhero comic, or even a male lead comic in general... (I might be wrong though).

    Edit: Also Marrison has depowered Superman in the past, is that sexist? I don't know what we are judging as sexist here. Which is why I encourage that if others wish to continue this conversation they should create a new thread for it.
    My problems with FC stem from turning Mary Marvel, a character made to be a good kid with a pure heart and usually a minor, turned into a sleeve for a masculine torture entity to slide into and dress up in fetish gear. Batman and Superman get to struggle and overcome all odds to topple the very root of all evil but Diana, the premier superheroine, gets reduced to a living pathogen that destroys the world and then becomes the extension of a male entity's domination of all life (Darkseid).

    All the women in that book are pawns or subservient. I don't think it was intended that way and I wouldn't ever consider Morrison a sexist, but that work kind of feels that way. Lois is semi fridged to bench Superman. Black Canary gets saved by Ollie sacrificing himself. I don't really recall much of Supergirl's role other than gracing the cover in issue three and looking like she can't remember if she appears in the damn issue or not.

    By the end, the boys got to do something cool and only Nubia got a cool moment and it's one panel of tell not show.

    I get that they wanted the book to end with the world's finest saving the day, alright, but it needed to be more even handed and give Diana something to do earlier. Instead, THE female superhero was turned into Darkseid's glorified enforcer.
    Last edited by Robanker; 06-07-2021 at 04:55 PM.

  3. #3978
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    My problems with FC stem from turning Mary Marvel, a character made to be a good kid with a pure heart and usually a minor, turned into a sleeve for a masculine torture entity to slide into and dress up in fetish gear. Batman and Superman get to struggle and overcome all odds to topple the very root of all evil but Diana, the premier superheroine, gets reduced to a living pathogen that destroys the world and then becomes the extension of a male entity's domination of all life (Darkseid).
    I think this one was more a meta commentary on how female characters like Mary, who are meant to appear to young girls, are instead fetishized and abused by creepy old men/comic book writers.

    Which is a very good point, but unfortunately contributed to the problem for Mary in the long run.

  4. #3979
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    To be fair... Black Mary was a cool idea. It's the evil version that's icky.

  5. #3980
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think this one was more a meta commentary on how female characters like Mary, who are meant to appear to young girls, are instead fetishized and abused by creepy old men/comic book writers.

    Which is a very good point, but unfortunately contributed to the problem for Mary in the long run.
    Oh, it was. Morrison can't help but whine about the comic book industry in most their projects for DC of late, even if it's usually done well.

    But the problem is that while Mary was commentary on that track... it was also an example of that track and the character never got out from under it. So it's not too far off from someone trying to use a slur ironically, but they're still using a slur. Final Crisis was a huge miss for me even if there are parts of it I genuinely adore.

  6. #3981
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Oh, it was. Morrison can't help but whine about the comic book industry in most their projects for DC of late, even if it's usually done well.
    Yeah, I can't say I disagree with them most of the time, but this instance was definitely a swing and a miss. 100% agree with the intent, but the execution was lousy and contributed to more of the issue.

    I love the Superman Beyond stuff, but Final Crisis in general was too self indulgent and the Mary and WW stuff doesn't help.

  7. #3982
    Extraordinary Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    I think this one was more a meta commentary on how female characters like Mary, who are meant to appear to young girls, are instead fetishized and abused by creepy old men/comic book writers.

    Which is a very good point, but unfortunately contributed to the problem for Mary in the long run.
    I felt some stuff like that, and some of the other stuff they were going for, it'd have probably been better to a story using pastiches of the characters than the actual ones.
    Last edited by Gaius; 06-08-2021 at 07:49 AM. Reason: some word corrections

  8. #3983
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    If Morrison had an issue with the way DC had written female characters then maybe they could have solved it by not writing them that way.

  9. #3984
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If Morrison had an issue with the way DC had written female characters then maybe they could have solved it by not writing them that way.
    Not meta enough and you can't stick it to editors that way.

    I'm getting diminishing returns on Morrison and their continual tirades against the industry in the text. The most recent iteration in The Green Lantern just ripped me right out of the book to remind me "oh yeah, Morrison hasn't complained about comics yet this issue."

    Just sign up on CBR.

  10. #3985
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Mary turning evil was a meta commentary? That flew over my head...

    I just though it was another "powerful female roll model gotta turn evil" phase...

  11. #3986
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I'm a Fish View Post
    Mary turning evil was a meta commentary? That flew over my head...

    I just though it was another "powerful female roll model gotta turn evil" phase...
    It was Morrison making fun of it... By playing it straight. Not their best idea. As a huge fan of Mary Marvel, I just try and forget that entire situation.

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