Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[AmiMizuno]

The more I think about. What if Argus was a program Steve made up. If God watch and VIlliany inc is all about stopping Diana and getting magic. What if Steve's answer to it is getting the same thing for the government? That thanks to where Diana lives and Steve having a few magically weapons he set up. I mean if we were to make Gateway a real Gateway. Steve could, in theory, explain why he would like mythical beings to help him set this up. This gives us the change to open different myths

[Ascended]

Steve called out Cadullo for toxic masculinity while still being very masculine himself. There isn't one way to do it.

Exactly.

Of course these days, embracing any form of masculinity can be considered toxic. I get the thought processes behind the term, but it's ended up as just an incredibly annoying buzzword. Sometimes I just prefer calling an asshole an asshole.

Completely agreed. I actually take issue with the term "toxic masculinity." I don't think it's a term that actually makes sense, because *real* men don't act in toxic ways, therefore masculinity can't be toxic (no more than femininity can be). It's an oxymoron. The "toxic masculinity/femininity" is just d-bags being d-bags. But getting into the definition of terminology is besides the point, splitting hairs on words we all know the meaning of, and will get me into arguments with people who like that term far too much anyway.

The more I think about. What if Argus was a program Steve made up.

I wholly and utterly support Steve being a part of Argus. I'm cool with him being the organization's liaison to the League too. But that's enough.

I don't need him putting the group together himself, or even being the guy who thought it up. That makes him too "special" and too big a deal. He doesn't have to be more than that, and I think it actually goes against some of his character themes; he's supposed to be a relatively normal guy; capable and confident and all that yes, but he's supposed to be the "regular" human who's in love with a god. Making him the father of Argus....it's like making Sam Lane a super spy or making Jacob Kane the leader of a huge, shadowy military branch. It's overkill. Steve doesn't need to be *that* big a deal; it's enough (for me) that he's a skilled soldier and a good man.

[wonder39]

Exactly.



Completely agreed. I actually take issue with the term "toxic masculinity." I don't think it's a term that actually makes sense, because *real* men don't act in toxic ways, therefore masculinity can't be toxic (no more than femininity can be). It's an oxymoron. The "toxic masculinity/femininity" is just d-bags being d-bags. But getting into the definition of terminology is besides the point, splitting hairs on words we all know the meaning of, and will get me into arguments with people who like that term far too much anyway.



I wholly and utterly support Steve being a part of Argus. I'm cool with him being the organization's liaison to the League too. But that's enough.

I don't need him putting the group together himself, or even being the guy who thought it up. That makes him too "special" and too big a deal. He doesn't have to be more than that, and I think it actually goes against some of his character themes; he's supposed to be a relatively normal guy; capable and confident and all that yes, but he's supposed to be the "regular" human who's in love with a god. Making him the father of Argus....it's like making Sam Lane a super spy or making Jacob Kane the leader of a huge, shadowy military branch. It's overkill. Steve doesn't need to be *that* big a deal; it's enough (for me) that he's a skilled soldier and a good man.

"Toxic masculinity" does not equal " all masculinity".... think of it like a subset. Its a type of masculinity that's toxic, but not indicative of all masculinity. A man can act " masculine" without being an a hole, or sexist, etc.

[Manakel]

I don't need him putting the group together himself, or even being the guy who thought it up. That makes him too "special" and too big a deal. He doesn't have to be more than that, and I think it actually goes against some of his character themes; he's supposed to be a relatively normal guy; capable and confident and all that yes, but he's supposed to be the "regular" human who's in love with a god. Making him the father of Argus....it's like making Sam Lane a super spy or making Jacob Kane the leader of a huge, shadowy military branch. It's overkill. Steve doesn't need to be *that* big a deal; it's enough (for me) that he's a skilled soldier and a good man.

Actually, he did put Justice League Dark together and even was in the superhuman business before he met Diana. He is a normal guy, sure, but he still lives a crazy life full of odities. I think it's good that way. It shows he doesn't need Diana to do what he does, just like she doesn't need him to do what she does. This makes their relationship very balanced.

[qwazer07]

I know it's not unpopular but Steve needs to step up his game. Compared to Catwoman and Lois. He is so empty. DC needs to push Steve more. BatCat and LoisClark work because both sides are interesting. There is drama, passion, history, etc. You feel it. Steve needs to face Diana and not just be seen as wrong. They need to push each other to develop and improve. Rant end.

[CRaymond]

Steve could carry a book easily. I just don’t think there’s an audience for a G.I. Indiana Joe book.

[qwazer07]

Steve could carry a book easily. I just don’t think there’s an audience for a G.I. Indiana Joe book.

Who cares. Jimmy Olsen has a book. DC should do a Marvel and not care if their books has an audience.

[Ascended]

"Toxic masculinity" does not equal " all masculinity".... think of it like a subset. Its a type of masculinity that's toxic, but not indicative of all masculinity. A man can act " masculine" without being an a hole, or sexist, etc.

But can a man act in a way that is toxic and still be said to be acting "like a man?" I don't think so. I think once a man crosses that line, they're no longer acting in a masculine way.

But this is not the place for the discussion. And like I said, it's just nitpicking a term. We all know what it's supposed to mean and we all agree those people are sh*t heads.

Actually, he did put Justice League Dark together

Did he? I don't remember that.

I'm cool with that. Putting together a small team, helping the League stay out of trouble, all of that is fine. I'm down with Steve having a crazy life before Diana, I just don't necessarily want him being such a big deal that he could create an entire new branch of the armed forces designed to deal with superhuman level threats. I want him to be a *part* of Argus, just not the guy who put it all together.

But I also have a head canon where Argus grew out of the JSA and their role in WWII, so maybe it's just me subconsciously wanting Argus to pre-date Steve by several decades.

I know it's not unpopular but Steve needs to step up his game. Compared to Catwoman and Lois. He is so empty. DC needs to push Steve more. BatCat and LoisClark work because both sides are interesting. There is drama, passion, history, etc. You feel it. Steve needs to face Diana and not just be seen as wrong. They need to push each other to develop and improve. Rant end.

He definitely needs work. But this is what happens when you're out of print for decades; everyone else gets character development and you're left behind. Give him time, if DC can ever get their act together with Diana and figure out how to maintain a consistent setting for her, Steve will catch up and become a more nuanced and enriched character.

[Bound4olympus]

Am I the only one here that thinks this is not the place for a bunch of men to discuss whether or not toxic masculinity exists? Just stop. Go to reddit and talk about it.

[AmiMizuno]

Okay. I feel maybe Steve also needs his own archenemy? or rather a rival. I am not talking about love rather someone to keep him on his toes.

[Gaius]

Okay. I feel maybe Steve also needs his own archenemy? or rather a rival. I am not talking about love rather someone to keep him on his toes.

I figure if DC wants to insist on Max Lord being a WW villain writing him as an "Evil Steve" would be a decent route to take the character.

Or maybe bring King Faraday over and make him Steve's boss.

[AmiMizuno]

One thing that makes comic Steve stale is the fact we never get to see what he does outside the military. In the early years, we have. If we talk about Etta for a bit I kind of never liked her being in the military. She and Steve symbolize two different sides of Diana I feel. Etta was a normal girl going to college and Steve was a warrior. Diana got to learn from Etta being in a normal enivorment. Not to say she can't learn from Steve but Still. This is why I kind of love the Holliday Girls.

[Manakel]

I don't think Steve can carry a book yet. However, DC can do like they did with Lois and create a Wonder woman/ Steve Trevor book like there was a Superman/Lois Lane book. It would give him a boost and also takes advantage of wonder woman popularity. Not a book based on romance (thought it can have it) but on adventures they have together.

[Ascended]

I figure if DC wants to insist on Max Lord being a WW villain writing him as an "Evil Steve" would be a decent route to take the character.

Or maybe bring King Faraday over and make him Steve's boss.

Setting Max up opposite Steve is a good call. I also think we could put Dr. Psycho and Steve in a room and get a really interesting conversation out of that. I don't think I'd go so far as to make Psycho a "Steve" foe but I do think they'd have an interesting dynamic.

As for a professional rival, if we're talking Steve's boss then we gotta talk about the structure of Argus, (or wherever Steve works) and whether that boss is the person at the top, or just Steve's immediate supervisor. I dunno if I'd be down with Argus being run by a corrupt/questionable person (they're supposed to be the good guys after all) but Steve's supervisor would be a good choice.

Faraday makes sense, he'd fit really nicely. There's also Bones (formerly of the DEO), Father Time (formerly of SHADE), and Sarge Steele (formerly of the DMA). But I think this might have to wait until we know what this side of the DCU will look like once the dust settles from the Leviathan-Checkmate stuff.

One thing that makes comic Steve stale is the fact we never get to see what he does outside the military. In the early years, we have. If we talk about Etta for a bit I kind of never liked her being in the military. She and Steve symbolize two different sides of Diana I feel. Etta was a normal girl going to college and Steve was a warrior. Diana got to learn from Etta being in a normal enivorment. Not to say she can't learn from Steve but Still. This is why I kind of love the Holliday Girls.

Agreed with everything. I really dislike Etta being in the military.

[AmiMizuno]

In a sense, Diana has three different archenemies. Maybe the same can be said for Steve. So Maxwell, his boss, and who else can be there? Also, where should Steve be with the Gods and Amazons? If Diana isn't there can he call Hippolta for help?


I mean if we had to not have Etta in the military I would keep in what Legends was doing. A singer.