Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[AmiMizuno]

I mean his mother and father can change. That maybe Steve is his dad. And Diana went missing. He wants to learn from his mom. So he goes to the past.

[Ascended]

I mean his mother and father can change. That maybe Steve is his dad. And Diana went missing. He wants to learn from his mom. So he goes to the past.

No, it could work.

My thing is, sidekicks, the kind that showcase in the lead title and partner up with the main hero (like Wallace West in Flash, for example) you want those characters to have pretty straightforward origins right? You dont want their story so complicated it demands a undue amount of page time or adjustment right? Or at least, that's how it seems to me. Obviously the sidekicks *should* get panel time and subplots and development and all that, but complex origins that require a lot of development in and of themselves and constant adjustment (as a time traveler would) seem to be reserved more for ancillary characters, like a Power Girl or whatever.

So a dude from the near-ish future who comes back in time and all that.....I dunno, seems a little more complicated than a standard sidekick should be.

But it could work, don't get me wrong.

[Manakel]

i don't think the origins of sidekicks are that important. You don't see them in the main title anymore anyway, maybe once or twice a year. Robin -->Teen titans. Kid Flash --> same. Superboy -->playing in the future. Wonder girl -->young justice.
I feel like the era of sidekicks is over and if you don't see them regularly in the main title, then maybe it is for the best.
Let's just use those we have.

[Gaius]

Maybe it's because they're more Titans/Young Justice characters these days but I've never really seen Donna Troy or Cassie as natural successors or heirs to the Wonder Woman title like I do with say Dick Grayson or Tim Drake being successors to the Batman title.

[Tzigone]

Maybe it's because they're more Titans/Young Justice characters these days but I've never really seen Donna Troy or Cassie as natural successors or heirs to the Wonder Woman title like I do with say Dick Grayson or Tim Drake being successors to the Batman title.

Well, in the old days, Donna wasn't even mentored by Diana. Hippolyta raised her and mentored her and she didn't even see Diana often (or so she said in some issues) because Diana was not on Paradise Island with her. I am, however, very much against Dick (or any of the others) as heir or successor to Batman, despite being his child. Them all being their own heroes, making their own names as great as those of the first generation, is a far better story to me. Much better than a hand-me-down-name and never being considered the "real" "XXX" as would almost definitely be the case with any new hero taking on a mantle today (which is far less likely to stick with the heroes most widely known the pubic, also).

[Gaius]

Well, in the old days, Donna wasn't even mentored by Diana. Hippolyta raised her and mentored her and she didn't even see Diana often (or so she said in some issues) because Diana was not on Paradise Island with her. I am, however, very much against Dick (or any of the others) as heir or successor to Batman, despite being his child. Them all being their own heroes, making their own names as great as those of the first generation, is a far better story to me. Much better than a hand-me-down-name and never being considered the "real" "XXX" as would almost definitely be the case with any new hero taking on a mantle today (which is far less likely to stick with the heroes most widely known the pubic, also).

Yeah, I can understand that. I do think Dick would make a good successor to Batman but I do prefer him as Nightwing since it lets him step out of Bruce's shadow.

[Ascended]

Is Wallace no longer in Flash? I'm behind.

Anyway, no you usually don't see sidekicks in their mentor's books anymore. Which seems like a mistake to me. And if you're not going to use the sidekick in the mentor's book, there's no real reason to introduce them. We already have Cassie and Donna out in the wider DCU, not hanging out with Diana, what's a third one going to accomplish?

[AmiMizuno]

With Donna. The way I want it to be fixed is Diana was a young girl when Donna was recused by Hippolyta. Wouldn’t it make more sense for Diana to have time in Donna’s childhood. I honestly feel maybe the age gap is 5 or 10 years.

[Koriand'r]

Is Wallace no longer in Flash? I'm behind.

Anyway, no you usually don't see sidekicks in their mentor's books anymore. Which seems like a mistake to me. And if you're not going to use the sidekick in the mentor's book, there's no real reason to introduce them. We already have Cassie and Donna out in the wider DCU, not hanging out with Diana, what's a third one going to accomplish?

It broadens the brand. It puts Wonder Woman in more corners of the DCU without her having to be there herself.

[Doctor Bifrost]

...I've never really seen Donna Troy or Cassie as natural successors or heirs to the Wonder Woman title like I do with say Dick Grayson or Tim Drake being successors to the Batman title.

Well, one reason is that Diana doesn't age*, so there's less of an expectation that she'll need a successor. The other is that, unlike Dick Grayson (and Jason, Tim, and Damian) and Batman - and similarly Roy Harper and Green Arrow, Wally West and the Flash (Barry), and Garth and Aquaman - Donna was never a mainstay of Diana's supporting cast in Wonder Woman comics or stories. She appeared occasionally, but we were already far into her history. And, of course, after Crisis on Infinite Earths, and connection she had with Diana became stretched thin and/or undefined. Cassie had more of a connection, but even then not so much. And I have no idea if the Cassie currently in the DCU - assuming Young Justice is even in the DCU - has ever met Diana. Or which of her origins is in effect.

I always thought that it was a mistake on DC's part not to make Wonder Girl/Donna Troy of the (original) Teen Titans, once she was introduced and had a name, more of a presence in Wonder Woman's life. Some stories in which she actually acted like Diana's sidekick, and some flashbacks to her coming to Man's World and maybe living with Diana for a while, would have done a better job of cementing her place in the DCU. (We already had all of that, after all, for the other four original Teen Titans.) And then maybe writers would have had a better foundation for her, and not gone every which way with her origin, over and over again. (Do we even know who Donna lived with in Man's World as a teenager, prior to CoIE? Unlike her TT colleagues, she just sort of floats in.)

(*I realize there's some question of whether Diana ages after she leaves Themyscira and starts living in Man's World. I simply don't know. In the very newest version we're getting, she seems to look the same age in WW II and the current day, but who knows what the details are? This newest version also seems to be largely restoring Donna's early origin - not Diana as a girl, or the younger sister of Diana just living on Paradise Island, but the Man's World infant rescued and raised on Paradise Island - and I'm interested in how that'll play out. And if it will stick.)

[Mel Dyer]

It broadens the brand. It puts Wonder Woman in more corners of the DCU without her having to be there herself.

The Wonderverse hasn't had the benefit of that, since the NTT days, in the 80s.

[Agent Z]

It broadens the brand. It puts Wonder Woman in more corners of the DCU without her having to be there herself.

That won't mean anything if those connections to Diana aren't properly developed in her own boo first. Tim and Dick had several years and issues with Batman before they branched out. With Donna, we don't even now what connection she has to Diana half the time and cassie's has been downplayed if not erased outright since the New 52.

[Manakel]

And I have no idea if the Cassie currently in the DCU - assuming Young Justice is even in the DCU - has ever met Diana. Or which of her origins is in effect.

She has in the N52 teen titans. It's when she learned Diana is her aunt.

It broadens the brand. It puts Wonder Woman in more corners of the DCU without her having to be there herself.

If you don't use the connections, there is no need for the connections. Right now Cassie and Donna could be original character without any connection to Diana and the stories wouldn't be different.
You can't expect to have a relation between Diana and the rest of the DCU if there is no personal implication. It is one of the reason Batman and Superman do well. It touches the characters or those close to them. Diana one the other hand has only Steve and Etta. For Steve you may expect something with Diana in Leviathan : Checkmate (but it's far from certain) and for Etta, she doesn't leave the main title.
Donna : one appearance in the Titan title when they where grounded by the justice league. Cassie : one appearence in the 52 teen titan to explain her "relationship" with Diana.
That's all. And it was totaly unecessary appearance. the stories wouldn't have been different if Diana wasn't there when the titan were grounded and the only reason Cassie is related to Diana is because of history. She could have been Superman's niece for what matter...

[Ascended]

It broadens the brand. It puts Wonder Woman in more corners of the DCU without her having to be there herself.

Eh, that seems like a minimal gain to me. Her brand is already well known and one of DC's biggest. Everybody knows Wonder Woman. And we already have Cass and Donna to showcase in Titans and Young Justice/Teen Titans. Where else would we put a teen legacy to increase exposure of the Wonder brand?

And if a new legacy were treated like the ones we already have, with no interaction between the legacy and Diana herself, then that's not helping Di either.

A new legacy could create new fans of the Wonder franchise, people who never cared for Diana or Donna or Cassie but do like the new character, and that's great. But it's not really going to add much to the brand, it's not gonna sell many more t-shirts or anything. Not unless the new legacy really takes off in a big "Harley Quinn" kind of way.

I'm fine with a new legacy being introduced but I really don't see what the point would be without the character actually being in Diana's book.

Of course, I'm not sure what the point of Cass and Donna is supposed to be, when they have nothing to do with Diana either.

[Koriand'r]

That won't mean anything if those connections to Diana aren't properly developed in her own boo first. Tim and Dick had several years and issues with Batman before they branched out. With Donna, we don't even now what connection she has to Diana half the time and cassie's has been downplayed if not erased outright since the New 52.

It means something to US. I wouldn't have read Earth 2 and Earth 2 Society if Fury hadn't been it. The same is true for Young Justice with Cassie and Red Hood and the Outlaws with Artemis. The Wonder related characters were the hook that got me involved with those books and that's good for DC as well as Diana.

Should there be a greater connection to Wonder Wonder as the main property? Absolutely! Realized or not, the potential is there and hope springs eternal.

More is always more and always better than nothing.