Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Perseus]

Totally agree, and that's something that irks me from time to time... it also applies to the movie version of Themiscyra. There are two issues here.

a) Themiscyra seems to consist mostly of temples, palaces, council halls, and other grand public buildings. It looks similar to the way Hollywood depicts Rome or Athens. In reality, the temples and palaces made up a very small percentage of those cities, and most of the inhabitants were no philosophers, priests, artists, or politicians, but craftsmen, tradesmen, workers (not even talking about slaves). Most of Rome consisted of slums and multi-storey tenement blocks. Why do you think Rome burned for 5 days? Hint: it wasn't the great marble palaces...

Where do the amazons build those flying motorbikes, and who builds them? Where do they do mining, farming, etc., and who does it? Or 'does the Lord provide', i.e. all the things of everyday life are provided by the Gods via magic???

b) I find it impossible to believe that a 'warrior society' can exist for thousands of years, just sparring every day. Either they would go soft over time, or they will go to war from time to time. Anybody who has _been_ in an army knows that peacetime duty is boring and makes people either dull, or aggressive. An army always needs to be occupied in some way. In peacetime, the Roman legions built all those roads (that lead to Rome...), or drained swamps, cleared woodland, and whatnot. Otherwise, they would get up to funny ideas like plundering the civilians they should protect, or stage a coup and make their commander the next emperor.

Even if we assume that the amazons are more noble than the Roman legions, at some point they will get bored of sparring. This may actually explain the frequent civil wars that occur on 'Paradise Island', e.g. 'Paradise lost' by Jiminez, or the Amazon/Manazon war in the Finch run... which, however, tends to diminish the number of amazons, unless they _do_ procreate (sex pirates...).

Agree to point a entirely. I think Themyscira has a lot of potential in terms of its history and pervious queens. We know that Hippolyta was the last queen before the amazons relocated to Paradise Island. What happened before? the previous queens reigns? what were they like? were there rebellions on Paradise? how were they handled? I think one or two rebellions or conflicts should happen for the sake of drama and entertainment value. Though I think overall amazons should be allowed to explore the stars the way the atlantians did. This would be a great way to reintroduce Amazons in the Stars too.

[Tzigone]

a) Themiscyra seems to consist mostly of temples, palaces, council halls, and other grand public buildings. It looks similar to the way Hollywood depicts Rome or Athens. In reality, the temples and palaces made up a very small percentage of those cities, and most of the inhabitants were no philosophers, priests, artists, or politicians, but craftsmen, tradesmen, workers (not even talking about slaves). Most of Rome consisted of slums and multi-storey tenement blocks. Why do you think Rome burned for 5 days? Hint: it wasn't the great marble palaces...

I agree that I'd love to see more of the "ordinary" stuff - homes, workers, infrastructure, etc. I do think that if they have a static population of immortals that don't reproduce then by time 3000 years have passed they should have no slums and everyone should have a decent home. Not sure how they should be constructed, as with a limited population you have to balance available builders/repairers with number of buildings. I'm really a big fan of the palace economy model and a sub-10,000 population, myself. Which really limits mass manufacture, to say the least.

And if they are all prime-of-life strong, healthy workers (no one too old, too young, too sick - no non-producers), then poverty may well be non-existent. Though the natural resources of the island will factor in a lot there.

[Koriand'r]

While it's nice-looking, I don't get the "by women, for women" - arches and domed roofs (in the buildings we have with them) are quite often designed by men, and I don't see how they benefit women (are "for women") any moreso than men. Also I really don't like the "lean forward" on the flying motorcycle look. Not for daily/mundane travel - seems uncomfortable.

I'd be interested in going away from so much white. I know we associate that with classical era Greek, but wasn't the older stuff (Mycenaean, Minoan, etc.) a lot more colorful? And colorful tiled mosaic floors would be cool, too. Appreciate the red roofs.

Edit: Actually tiled mosaics may be too new. Not saying they have to stick with the decorating styles of 3000 years ago, but they don't have to copy things done in our world, either. But it's "iffy" place to be. Still need artists of today to craft it, and need a look that invokes a certain sentiment (which sentiment is up to the creative team) to the audience. A truly foreign and unlike-anything-familiar look might not work for that, might make it feel more alien than they want.

"That’s the thing with curves. While most architecture is rectilineal – all straight lines and squared angles – curves are often designed to soften a building’s impact, help the structure meld into the surrounding landscape. That’s why curves work particularly well near bodies of water, reflecting that sense of fluidity, or in rural and mountain settings."

“Curves derive their inspiration from the beauty of nature and the efficiency in [the design of] nature," Sydney architect Tony Owen says. “They also relate to the human body, the feminine form. It’s why iPhones, glasses and cars have curves; we instinctively love curvy things."


https://politecture.wordpress.com/20...-have-genders/

Especially since this version of Themyscira was designed by two men whose understanding of feminism is limited to research they did specifically for the purposes of shaping this continuity's version of the Amazons.

Paquette:"I love research, so when I do a project with a real place, I spend a lot of time in Google "walking" the streets or just gathering a massive amount of imagery. But with something that's fantasy, I felt like I needed something that I could use as a basic ingredient that I could extrapolate to really show their culture. So, in the case of the island, their clothing, their technology, I wanted to take some flare from the original Greek aspect of them, but I thought about how it would be if it was exposed to nature, to birds, sea shells, feminine forms. So, these are the basic ingredients from which I can try to extrapolate what this culture would look like. For everything—for a building, for a door knob, for a weapon—I looked at them and thought, "Oh yeah, have seen these things for years." So, it makes sense.

But I also wanted them to seem indebted to the Greek side of their culture without feeling trapped by it, which I feel sometimes people do."

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/0...arth-one-vol-2

[Agent Z]

"That’s the thing with curves. While most architecture is rectilineal – all straight lines and squared angles – curves are often designed to soften a building’s impact, help the structure meld into the surrounding landscape. That’s why curves work particularly well near bodies of water, reflecting that sense of fluidity, or in rural and mountain settings."

“Curves derive their inspiration from the beauty of nature and the efficiency in [the design of] nature," Sydney architect Tony Owen says. “They also relate to the human body, the feminine form. It’s why iPhones, glasses and cars have curves; we instinctively love curvy things."


https://politecture.wordpress.com/20...-have-genders/




Paquette:"I love research, so when I do a project with a real place, I spend a lot of time in Google "walking" the streets or just gathering a massive amount of imagery. But with something that's fantasy, I felt like I needed something that I could use as a basic ingredient that I could extrapolate to really show their culture. So, in the case of the island, their clothing, their technology, I wanted to take some flare from the original Greek aspect of them, but I thought about how it would be if it was exposed to nature, to birds, sea shells, feminine forms. So, these are the basic ingredients from which I can try to extrapolate what this culture would look like. For everything—for a building, for a door knob, for a weapon—I looked at them and thought, "Oh yeah, have seen these things for years." So, it makes sense.

But I also wanted them to seem indebted to the Greek side of their culture without feeling trapped by it, which I feel sometimes people do."

https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2018/0...arth-one-vol-2

I don't see how this disproves my point or supports the idea of this Themyscira looking like something that was "by women, for women".

Also, no, architecture doesn't have gender. I can't believe I live in a world where I have to say this.

[Koriand'r]

I don't see how this disproves my point or supports the idea of this Themyscira looking like something that was "by women, for women".

Also, no, architecture doesn't have gender. I can't believe I live in a world where I have to say this.

Then don't. Apparently there are a lot of things that you can't see.

[Agent Z]

Then don't. Apparently there are a lot of things that you can't see.

Could say the same of you.

[Tzigone]

There's plenty I can see if it, you know, exists.

I'm with you Agent Z. There's nothing especially feminine-looking about it to me (and I'm female), and reading the interview doesn't change my perspective. Nature isn't any more feminine than masculine. The architecture itself looks based on ripped-out-of-history in stuff designed by men. Like I said, it's pretty enough. But nothing screams "women" to me, and certainly nothing looks like it had anything to do with "feminine forms." Statue of a woman indicates female heroes, but frankly the pose looks at least somewhat titillating v. heroic/dramatic, which is not normally what we do with our heroes/idols. Actually, titillating isn't really the right word at all. But it's the way the legs are (instead of further apart, firmly planted, etc.). Of course, that seems to apply to convenient breezes, too, judging by the way clothes blow.

[Koriand'r]

I'm with you Agent Z. There's nothing especially feminine-looking about it to me (and I'm female), and reading the interview doesn't change my perspective. Nature isn't any more feminine than masculine. The architecture itself looks based on ripped-out-of-history in stuff designed by men. Like I said, it's pretty enough. But nothing screams "women" to me, and certainly nothing looks like it had anything to do with "feminine forms." Statue of a woman indicates female heroes, but frankly the pose looks at least somewhat titillating v. heroic/dramatic, which is not normally what we do with our heroes/idols. Actually, titillating isn't really the right word at all. But it's the way the legs are (instead of further apart, firmly planted, etc.). Of course, that seems to apply to convenient breezes, too, judging by the way clothes blow.

I really don't care. Neither of you could ever convince me there aren't inanimate objects and designs that aren't innately feminine or masculine.

womens and mens razors.jpg

You can disagree all day long but it doesn't make you right. Heck a dome is basically a plaster breast on top of a building. lol

[marhawkman]

I think Roman colors would be nice. Some reds, oranges, golds, greens, violets, blues, etc... Classical Greece was rarely ever just whites.

One thing that is sadly lost on many students of classic architecture is that even if it's dull colored NOW, a lot of the stuff was vividly colored then.

[kjn]

Go back 300 years (or even just 200 years), and pink was considered a man's colour, as it was seen as a nuance of red.

Now, there is every reason for a civilisation like Themyscira to have their own unique aesthetics and preferences in architecture, art, or design, but I'm not sure you could ascribe gender to it. Rather the opposite: Themyscira to me is a society that simply do not have genders. Now, I don't think there is anybody here who is capable of constructing a gender-less society, but the self-congratulary tone I get from Yanick Paqeuette sticks in my craw.

(This was indeed one of the big contributions to the depictions of Diana that the movie made: that Diana actively resisted and questioned the attempts from outside to make her conform to the gender norms of Man's World.)

[Pinsir]

I really don't care. Neither of you could ever convince me there aren't inanimate objects and designs that aren't innately feminine or masculine.

Nothing is innately feminine or masculine, we process reality through our human eyes which is filtered through our culture and individual biases.

[kjn]

I'd be interested in going away from so much white. I know we associate that with classical era Greek, but wasn't the older stuff (Mycenaean, Minoan, etc.) a lot more colorful? And colorful tiled mosaic floors would be cool, too. Appreciate the red roofs.

Modern analysis of classical statues has shown that they were indeed painted in vivid colours, sometimes even what I'd call garish.

See eg The Myth of Whiteness in Classical Sculpture

[Koriand'r]

Nothing is innately feminine or masculine, we process reality through our human eyes which is filtered through our culture and individual biases.

That's just not true, it's like saying there's no difference between a jock strap and a brassiere because they're both undergarments.

[Pinsir]

That's just not true, it's like saying there's no difference between a jock strap and a brassiere because they're both undergarments.

Men and woman can wear bras and jock straps respectively, even if most don't...If an alien race, say a group of non-mammalian aliens lands on earth they won't innately prescribe gendered characteristics to a bra because in their own culture they don't have any bosoms to support!

[Koriand'r]

Men and woman can wear bras and jock straps respectively, even if most don't...If an alien race, say a group of non-mammalian aliens lands on earth they won't innately prescribe gendered characteristics to a bra because in their own culture they don't have any bosoms to support!

When a race of non-mammalian extraterrestrials comes down here you can tell them that, but on Earth in 2020 I'm not buying it.