Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[SiegePerilous02]

Do it like Cap's vibranium shield, Amazonium bracelets absorb kinetic energy and the bullets don't even ricochet. They fall harmlessly to the ground, endangering nobody. She is otherwise bulletproof.

Have her say this in a single line of dialogue in one panel, and move on, never to speak of it again.

[Perseus]

Doesn't she do that anyway?

Sometimes worrying about consistency and realistic explanations for these stories about a magical Amazon princess who rides kangaroos and has an invisible jet and a magic lasso in fantastical stories that were (and really, probably still should be) chiefly aimed at kids isn't worth it and almost misses the point. Just do what Kjn said, and have her keep doing it because Rule of Cool. Just don't make a big deal about it either in or out of story.

Normally I would agree with you. The "rule of cool" has been sorely lacking in comics these days, even more so with Diana. But, the main titles aren't really kid friendly. Like, yes comics are aimed at kids but, like DEATH METAL is a thing that's happening. Writers/artist constantly put heroes in very adult situations with blood, violence, bedroom scenes, etc... I'm not saying kid's entertainment needs to be watered down, hell I love ATLA. But, I hear "aimed at kids" and I think tempest tossed or any of the other YA books featuring DC heroes.

[Perseus]

And the solution they've come up with is to be lazy and take away one of the things that makes her unique, instead of putting in actual effort to make it work.

But, that's the problem... it doesn't work.

[Jcogginsa]

Do it like Cap's vibranium shield, Amazonium bracelets absorb kinetic energy and the bullets don't even ricochet. They fall harmlessly to the ground, endangering nobody. She is otherwise bulletproof.

Have her say this in a single line of dialogue in one panel, and move on, never to speak of it again.

That's the worst possible answer. It takes away all the potential of the iconography and doesn't answer the fact that if safety of others were her sole concern then she could just catch the bullets

But, that's the problem... it doesn't work.

Because people are too lazy to come up with ways to make it work.

I've already offered two different ways to make it work in this recent discussion alone. If I can do that Y'all can too.

[SiegePerilous02]

Normally I would agree with you. The "rule of cool" has been sorely lacking in comics these days, even more so with Diana. But, the main titles aren't really kid friendly. Like, yes comics are aimed at kids but, like DEATH METAL is a thing that's happening. Writers/artist constantly put heroes in very adult situations with blood, violence, bedroom scenes, etc... I'm not saying kid's entertainment needs to be watered down, hell I love ATLA. But, I hear "aimed at kids" and I think tempest tossed or any of the other YA books featuring DC heroes.

Yes this is a problem. I wouldn't mind most of the comics DC produce becoming more family friendly, and saving the heavy material for the Black Label. Even among stories aimed at kinds, there are varying degrees you can go to. Stuff like the Hobbit or the Narnia books are aimed at kids first and foremost, but can be enjoyed by adults and are honestly smarter than a lot of fiction aimed at adults. And honestly still have some legitimately scary/intense moments, often through implication and letting your thoughts dwell on things.

This is a way to make someone like the Joker more effectively scary: kids like to be scared a bit by stories (to a point), and the Joker is kind of villain who should be scary. But also clever and not in-your-face to the point where he's leaving a trail of corpses in his wake every time he has a scheme. More related to Wonder Woman, you can imply the Cheetah's curse involves her eating people without directly showing and doing it in such a way that only the older readers may pick up on it.

That's the worst possible answer. It takes away all the potential of the iconography and doesn't answer the fact that if safety of others were her sole concern then she could just catch the bullets.

No answer to this is going to be very satisfying as there really isn't a practical or realistic reason for it unless we drop it altogether and make her bulletproof or confirm that she isn't, which not everyone wants.

But honestly, we don't need an answer. Just leave it alone and people in general should stop overthinking our silly brightly colorful superhero fiction in all areas.

[Perseus]

That's the worst possible answer. It takes away all the potential of the iconography and doesn't answer the fact that if safety of others were her sole concern then she could just catch the bullets

Because people are too lazy to come up with ways to make it work.

I've already offered two different ways to make it work in this recent discussion alone. If I can do that Y'all can too.

No, I think that's a good answer. I believe you are mistaking the iconography of bullets and bracelets with JUST the bullets part. Diana blocking literally anything with her bracelets is iconic. I don't think Carl, local bank robber, should be able to pose a challenge to a literal Goddess because he happened to bring along a his 12 gauge.

Its not the bullets that make the moment it never was, its her action with the bracelets.

Just because there are "ways" to answer it doesn't make them good. And, only further more explanation at that. If Ares made it to were every bullet and knife ever produced could actually harm and kill Diana... then NONE of those are "regular" bullets and knives, seeing as they were all just blessed by the God of war... that would make them magical in nature. Baldor was invulnerable to all things but, mistletoe because Frey thought that it was too harmless to hurt or kill anyone, so she never bothered to ask it. The equivalent to that would be Athena and Aphrodite going around and asking every person, animal, plant, and thing (EXCEPT for bullets and knives) to never harm Diana, because as we all know... bullets and knives cant hurt anyone.

I don't think making her immune to man made weapons would take away from that iconography or make writers lazy. The bracelets are still useful to block heat vision, magic blasts, demon lightning, omega beams, punches, kicks, etc... all more deadly than bullets and she is still doing what she always has.

My explanation is simple and effective...
In the DC universe the New Gods can walk through a hail of bullets, have a knife shatter against their body, and have tank shells bounce right off of them. Yet they are still cut and stabbed by their own weaponry. No man made weapon can harm a Greek God, yet Ares was stabbed by a blade he himself blessed. All I'm suggesting is that that rule be applied to Diana.

[Perseus]

Yes this is a problem. I wouldn't mind most of the comics DC produce becoming more family friendly, and saving the heavy material for the Black Label. Even among stories aimed at kinds, there are varying degrees you can go to. Stuff like the Hobbit or the Narnia books are aimed at kids first and foremost, but can be enjoyed by adults and are honestly smarter than a lot of fiction aimed at adults. And honestly still have some legitimately scary/intense moments, often through implication and letting your thoughts dwell on things.

Personally I think a middle ground would be nice. I could sit here and praise Rucka or Simone or Perez but, I couldn't say that those runs are particularly family friendly. I think ASOIAF or Game of Thrones would be a better fantasy world to draw inspiration from for Diana's world. Only because of the politics and grey area that world has would be a perfect fit for the naturally grey world of Antient Greece, its myths, the Amazons, the Gods and their schemes, and Diana's mission as an ambassador. "the only thing worth writing about is the human heart in conflict with its self". I think GRRM has really shown that with his POV characters and that would translate wonderfully to Diana's rouges.

On another topic; I do wish more writers stopped trying to use Diana to deconstruct the super hero archetype and instead focus on building her up. Specifically using Greek myth and fantasy as a support frame, rather than a hero with a city.

[Jcogginsa]

No answer to this is going to be very satisfying as there really isn't a practical or realistic reason for it unless we drop it altogether and make her bulletproof or confirm that she isn't, which not everyone wants.

But honestly, we don't need an answer. Just leave it alone and people in general should stop overthinking our silly brightly colorful superhero fiction in all areas.

It's magic. Realism is not a requirement

No, I think that's a good answer. I believe you are mistaking the iconography of bullets and bracelets with JUST the bullets part. Diana blocking literally anything with her bracelets is iconic. I don't think Carl, local bank robber, should be able to pose a challenge to a literal Goddess because he happened to bring along a his 12 gauge.

Its not the bullets that make the moment it never was, its her action with the bracelets.

Will people stop bitching about random people with guns being a threat to Diana?

If they aren't a threat to any of the other characters who can be hurt by bullets, they're not gonna suddenly be threat to Diana either.

Just because there are "ways" to answer it doesn't make them good. And, only further more explanation at that. If Ares made it to were every bullet and knife ever produced could actually harm and kill Diana... then NONE of those are "regular" bullets and knives, seeing as they were all just blessed by the God of war... that would make them magical in nature. Baldor was invulnerable to all things but, mistletoe because Frey thought that it was too harmless to hurt or kill anyone, so she never bothered to ask it. The equivalent to that would be Athena and Aphrodite going around and asking every person, animal, plant, and thing (EXCEPT for bullets and knives) to never harm Diana, because as we all know... bullets and knives cant hurt anyone.

1. So what? The main point is that the bullets available to every villain will be useable. (And I don't care about Knives or Bladed weapons, Diana's durability can apply to them for all I care)
2. I never said to copy the Balder story exactly, It was just an example of how weaknesses work when Magic is involved.

I don't think making her immune to man made weapons would take away from that iconography or make writers lazy. The bracelets are still useful to block heat vision, magic blasts, demon lightning, omega beams, punches, kicks, etc... all more deadly than bullets and she is still doing what she always has.

My explanation is simple and effective...
In the DC universe the New Gods can walk through a hail of bullets, have a knife shatter against their body, and have tank shells bounce right off of them. Yet they are still cut and stabbed by their own weaponry. No man made weapon can harm a Greek God, yet Ares was stabbed by a blade he himself blessed. All I'm suggesting is that that rule be applied to Diana.

And that's a bad solution for multiple reasons

It means that the only villains Diana can fight are the ones on the level of the Greek Gods, that's drastically limiting the Size and variability of Diana's rogues gallery. It reduces all the battles to contests of strength. You can't have any enemies that are weaker that her but able to challenge her by wits, because the only way to hurt her is by being stronger than she is durable

[Perseus]

It's magic. Realism is not a requirement


JWill people stop bitching about random people with guns being a threat to Diana?

If they aren't a threat to any of the other characters who can be hurt by bullets, they're not gonna suddenly be threat to Diana either.


1. So what? The main point is that the bullets available to every villain will be useable. (And I don't care about Knives or Bladed weapons, Diana's durability can apply to them for all I care)
2. I never said to copy the Balder story exactly, It was just an example of how weaknesses work when Magic is involved.



And that's a bad solution for multiple reasons

It means that the only villains Diana can fight are the ones on the level of the Greek Gods, that's drastically limiting the Size and variability of Diana's rogues gallery. It reduces all the battles to contests of strength. You can't have any enemies that are weaker that her but able to challenge her by wits, because the only way to hurt her is by being stronger than she is durable

Even magic needs a system to work with. If it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense.

But... they have been a threat to Diana. There is in canon proof that they are regardless of how fast she is. Call it lazy writing or plot induced stupidity or a lack of knowledge of the character's speed however many times you want its not going to change the fact that DC editorial has consistently allowed those moments to happen.

Why do you want every person and their ancestors to pose a threat to Diana? and the fact that you SPECIFICALY want bullets to hurt her, not just piercing weapons, makes me question your whole argument and reason for being on this hill. I don't think every person should be able to hurt Diana for the same reason as why not every person should be able to hurt flash, green lantern, superman, thor, etc...

Its probably the best solution. Talk about a lack of creativity. If Diana could only be pierced by blades made by angels/demons/gods/new gods etc... then how many more instances would we get of Diana's villains interacting with those forces? Silver Swan's golden age story of being a descendant of Ares and getting blessings from him. Veronica Cale making a deal with Eris or Ares for powerful weapons to kill Diana. Dr. Poison searching for powerful, mythical, poisonous animal to collect their DNA samples and create chemical weapons to use against Diana and her loved ones. Didn't Aegeus get revamped into an arms dealer that sold advanced weapons based on mythology and the ancient world? would it be a surprise that he has the "real deals" for himself.

You want someone weaker than Diana to pose a threat. What you want is a lex Luthor. But, how does Luthor fight Superman? he puts Superman in a vulnerable position (usually involving him flying around the planet solving different tasks that Lex put up as a front), then using his intellect and finances creates a super suit powered by kryptonite to fight him... or hires people to fight Superman for him... or captures someone important to Superman forcing him to still do some form of physicals task... so ultimately it comes down to Superman's power how well Lex can find a way around it. The same could be implied to any other character with similar stats.

If you want Diana to be challenged in a game of wits, you need someone that holds all the cards in what ever game they are playing. And guess what... you don't need Diana to be weak to bullets for that to happen.

[VonHammersmark]

I’m with Jcogginsa on this one, I’m fine with bullets being Wonder Woman’s Achilles’ heel and I think a curse is a perfectly good explanation for it. A dude with an assault rifle should never pose a threat to Wonder Woman though, her villains need to come up with elaborate ways to put a bullet on her, shooting Wonder Woman is no simple feat

[Perseus]

Hell, I don't even think Diana should physically pose a threat to Gods like Ares or Zeus. Greek myth is about powerful people out smarting even more powerful people. How did Zeus win the throne of the universe? he out smarted and bested his father with help from his siblings.

[Perseus]

I’m with Jcogginsa on this one, I’m fine with bullets being Wonder Woman’s Achilles’ heel and I think a curse is a perfectly good explanation for it. A dude with an assault rifle should never pose a threat to Wonder Woman though, her villains need to come up with elaborate ways to put a bullet on her, shooting Wonder Woman is no simple feat

I mean, ALL of rebirth disagrees with you. Her villains needing elaborate ways to bring her down wouldn't change even if you remove that weakness. Diana, someone who is close to if not already a Goddess, should not have man made bullets as a weakness. It is as dumb as green lantern and the color yellow.

[Jcogginsa]

Even magic needs a system to work with. If it doesn't make sense, it doesn't make sense.

So make a system

But... they have been a threat to Diana. There is in canon proof that they are regardless of how fast she is. Call it lazy writing or plot induced stupidity or a lack of knowledge of the character's speed however many times you want its not going to change the fact that DC editorial has consistently allowed those moments to happen.

That's because of bad writing, not Diana having a vulnerability. Every character is going to have low showings, there is literally nothing that can stop that.

Why do you want every person and their ancestors to pose a threat to Diana? and the fact that you SPECIFICALY want bullets to hurt her, not just piercing weapons, makes me question your whole argument and reason for being on this hill. I don't think every person should be able to hurt Diana for the same reason as why not every person should be able to hurt flash, green lantern, superman, thor, etc...

I don't care about swords because

1. Diana doesn't have an iconic visual that involves deflecting swords
2. I think the "piercing weapons" weakness is too vague, and it's simpler to create explanations for the vulnerability when bullets are the only thing to contend with.

Its probably the best solution. Talk about a lack of creativity. If Diana could only be pierced by blades made by angels/demons/gods/new gods etc... then how many more instances would we get of Diana's villains interacting with those forces? Silver Swan's golden age story of being a descendant of Ares and getting blessings from him. Veronica Cale making a deal with Eris or Ares for powerful weapons to kill Diana. Dr. Poison searching for powerful, mythical, poisonous animal to collect their DNA samples and create chemical weapons to use against Diana and her loved ones. Didn't Aegeus get revamped into an arms dealer that sold advanced weapons based on mythology and the ancient world? would it be a surprise that he has the "real deals" for himself.

No, it isn't. Making Diana's Rogues gallery dependent on those forces would only reduce the amount of variety in her stories. Diana needs to a diverse range of stories. She needs stories dealing with Supervillains, she needs stories that take her to space, in addition to the that utilize the Mythical stuff.

You want someone weaker than Diana to pose a threat. What you want is a lex Luthor. But, how does Luthor fight Superman? he puts Superman in a vulnerable position (usually involving him flying around the planet solving different tasks that Lex put up as a front), then using his intellect and finances creates a super suit powered by kryptonite to fight him... or hires people to fight Superman for him... or captures someone important to Superman forcing him to still do some form of physicals task... so ultimately it comes down to Superman's power how well Lex can find a way around it. The same could be implied to any other character with similar stats.

If you want Diana to be challenged in a game of wits, you need someone that holds all the cards in what ever game they are playing. And guess what... you don't need Diana to be weak to bullets for that to happen.

Yes, and Superman has vulnerabilities that Lex's plans can exploit. He's got Kryptonite, he's got red sunlight, etc.. Diana needs to have vulnerabilities too, because otherwise the only way to have conflicts with her villains is to have all of them be stronger than she is. Instead of her having a singular weakness that can be exploited in creative new ways, You'll have a dozen different objects around that can hurt her because they'll getting made whenever a writer wants to introduce a new villain

[Perseus]

So make a system


That's because of bad writing, not Diana having a vulnerability. Every character is going to have low showings, there is literally nothing that can stop that.




I don't care about swords because

1. Diana doesn't have an iconic visual that involves deflecting swords
2. I think the "piercing weapons" weakness is too vague, and it's simpler to create explanations for the vulnerability when bullets are the only thing to contend with.



No, it isn't. Making Diana's Rogues gallery dependent on those forces would only reduce the amount of variety in her stories. Diana needs to a diverse range of stories. She needs stories dealing with Supervillains, she needs stories that take her to space, in addition to the that utilize the Mythical stuff.



Yes, and Superman has vulnerabilities that Lex's plans can exploit. He's got Kryptonite, he's got red sunlight, etc.. Diana needs to have vulnerabilities too, because otherwise the only way to have conflicts with her villains is to have all of them be stronger than she is. Instead of her having a singular weakness that can be exploited in creative new ways, You'll have a dozen different objects around that can hurt her because they'll getting made whenever a writer wants to introduce a new villain

The system is there, you are just refusing to work with it for some arbitrary reason.

Again, call it that however many times you want, still doesn't change anything.

Magic piercing weapons is too vague, but its totally reasonable for a god to be killed by a bullet? sure Jan. Diana's iconic visual is the Bracelets blocking anything. Its also the lasso, the tiara, her surrounded by eagles, I could go on...

OMG, space people (which she doesn't really fight anyway) and supervillains use super advanced tech that is 100% not man made and billions of times deadlier than bullets. You are honestly proving my point that bullets should not even be on radar for her as a weakness. Give me 3 scenarios, just 3, that Diana would feel any sort of threat towards a bullet if she has a weakness to it. And don't say "X character that is just as powerful has a gun" or "someone has a loved one hostage". Because, like the situations with Lex and Superman, they will play out the same.

Superman's vulnerabilities can be counted on one hand, and 90% of the time are used in the same way. You are acting like Diana has one weakness and nothing else. Diana can be killed and harmed with magic poisons and different poisons act differently. Having a weakness to piercing weapons means she could be cut, stabbed, have an arm or leg cut off, or even be killed. Literally can be beaten by anyone more powerful than her. She can be cursed. Not to mention the fact that she is usually a pawn in the Game of the Gods. Every single member of her rouges gallery can and has the ability to fight her. Supervillains and Aliens including.

you can come up with the same explanation a thousand times, it will NEVER change the fact that a bullet should do absolutely nothing to a being as powerful as Diana.

[Perseus]

I'm over here, genuinely wanting really, really cool moments for my favorite character. I want to see Diana pushed to her absolute limits; physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually. I want to see Diana fight and win against insurmountable odds. To challenge and be challenged by Gods and Monsters and Mages. To display an incredible level of skill against a fighter. To show off her insane power. To out smart the most cunning beings. To rise as a leader and a future queen. and yet, I'M the UNCREATIVE ONE? because I don't think a freaking bullet should harm her?