Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Frontier]

We have no shortage of stories about Hippolyta and Diana in conflict that has nothing to do with the contest. The debate among the Amazons to reunite with the outside world is a better example if you want to see the Amazons' values reflected. I'd argue the contest is one of the reasons the Amazons are still hit with the stigma of being seen as a outdated since no civilized country picks their representatives based on their skill in sports.

It's not just a sporting event, though, it's testing the Amazons on their skills and strength.

[SiegePerilous02]

We have no shortage of stories about Hippolyta and Diana in conflict that has nothing to do with the contest. The debate among the Amazons to reunite with the outside world is a better example if you want to see the Amazons' values reflected. I'd argue the contest is one of the reasons the Amazons are still hit with the stigma of being seen as a outdated since no civilized country picks their representatives based on their skill in sports.

I doubt enough Wonder Woman detractors really know enough or care enough about the Contest to factor it into their reinforcing the stigma of them being an outdated civilization. Most of them give the impression they don't read much WW, and if they do they are going to go for stuff like the Amazons' issues with men and isolationism and lack of any technological advancements over one moment in the origin story.

You can have both the Contest and the debate among the Amazons, especially as the former is about sending one worthy champion to thwart one specific threat, whereas the other is radical change for their entire society with pluses and minuses.

[kjn]

We have no shortage of stories about Hippolyta and Diana in conflict that has nothing to do with the contest. The debate among the Amazons to reunite with the outside world is a better example if you want to see the Amazons' values reflected. I'd argue the contest is one of the reasons the Amazons are still hit with the stigma of being seen as a outdated since no civilized country picks their representatives based on their skill in sports.

Apart from what SiegePerilous02 said, I want to latch onto that there is a key element in the contest conflict between Hippolyta and Diana that are missing from later ones: as result of it, Hippolyta is going from seeing Diana as a child to seeing her as an adult.

[sifighter]

I'm not sure if this is controversial but generally I'm unsure of how people feel about the current origin. However, I was thinking that if Wonder Woman is going have her WW2 origin that they should just reintroduce Fury, it could be similar to the original, the earth 2 version, or just a whole new version altogether.

[DochaDocha]

I think you can change the nature of the contest to be about as modern, progressive, and enlightened as you want it to be, but the average comic book fan is going to see the Amazons outdated as long as the iconography of Themyscira is going to be Greek iron age.

[Perseus]

Advance technology mixed with magic (magitec I think its called) needs to be the base aesthetic for Themyscira and the amazons. Keep the Greco-Roman architecture but add a high tech advanced civilization feel to it.

Anyone played Assassin's Creed Odyssey? Think Isu but, for the amazons.

[Tzigone]

Apart from what SiegePerilous02 said, I want to latch onto that there is a key element in the contest conflict between Hippolyta and Diana that are missing from later ones: as result of it, Hippolyta is going from seeing Diana as a child to seeing her as an adult.

I hadn't thought of it, but it's a good observation. If the competition is completely/overtly in martial skills, it works if Diana is being sent as a warrior. But not everyone likes that being her role.

I think you can change the nature of the contest to be about as modern, progressive, and enlightened as you want it to be, but the average comic book fan is going to see the Amazons outdated as long as the iconography of Themyscira is going to be Greek iron age.

I think the very society and its values being based on the superiority of one sex over the other kills "enlightened" far more than aesthetics. But I will agree that if it appears to be tech from that level (in appearance, even if not in actuality with healing, etc.), that may be problematic in terms of them being easily regarded as modern. Of course, that raises the issue of it they should be that. Once up on a time they were so far advanced, technologically (even when some aspects didn't make sense), but there's been a switch to magic over tech and a more and more real-world aesthetic. It's easily recognizable (even if not historically accurate) to the viewer and transmits the Greek connection well, so I get why it's that way. But it does kinda make them feel more like a society of the past than one centuries (or millennia) removed.

Advance technology mixed with magic (magitec I think its called) needs to be the base aesthetic for Themyscira and the amazons. Keep the Greco-Roman architecture but add a high tech advanced civilization feel to it.

I kinda like the tech aspect. Not sure how I feel about the magic. And, while this is a WW subforum, I'd be interested in some discussion on how the tech/magic balance of Themyscira can be overtly different than Atlantis.

[marhawkman]

I kinda like the tech aspect. Not sure how I feel about the magic. And, while this is a WW subforum, I'd be interested in some discussion on how the tech/magic balance of Themyscira can be overtly different than Atlantis.

Looks different, does different things?

[SiegePerilous02]

I'd have Atlantis lean far more heavily towards magic than Themyscira, though Atlantis would have tech as well.

The Amazons, aside from maybe their creation at the hands of the goddesses (depending on the version) are not known to be magical themselves or seek out the arts of spellcasting. The magical nature of the island and their immortality should come from an outside source (the Gods), but they themselves rely on technology they develop.

[Tzigone]

I'd have Atlantis lean far more heavily towards magic than Themyscira, though Atlantis would have tech as well.

The Amazons, aside from maybe their creation at the hands of the goddesses (depending on the version) are not known to be magical themselves or seek out the arts of spellcasting. The magical nature of the island and their immortality should come from an outside source (the Gods), but they themselves rely on technology they develop.

I really like that setup for Themyscira. I like the differentiation, and I especially like that with a more technology-oriented setup, it's much easier to have the Amazons do it themselves. Earn their own achievements. Magic doesn't always have to be a shortcut in fiction, but it too often can be perceived that way.

Plus, I admit to preferring a less magic-centric Wonder Woman in general.

[Perseus]

I kinda like the tech aspect. Not sure how I feel about the magic. And, while this is a WW subforum, I'd be interested in some discussion on how the tech/magic balance of Themyscira can be overtly different than Atlantis.

I'd have Atlantis lean far more heavily towards magic than Themyscira, though Atlantis would have tech as well.

The Amazons, aside from maybe their creation at the hands of the goddesses (depending on the version) are not known to be magical themselves or seek out the arts of spellcasting. The magical nature of the island and their immortality should come from an outside source (the Gods), but they themselves rely on technology they develop.

Looks different, does different things?

Maybe if Atlantis is 60% magic and 40% tech than Themyscira is 40% magic and 60% tech?

I mean the trope definition of Magitek (Magitech) is Advanced ubiquitous magic always seems to end up working just like technology. Obvious examples would be the asguardians in the MARVEL movies, and Jack Kirby's Fourth World tech. Even in the golden age the amazons used technology to create the purple healing ray and invisible jet.

An Isu AC: Odyssey example:

Think ancient Greek si-fi...



Amazons where gifted superhuman stats and agelessness. While I think that because they serve the Gods that their more devote followers would learn elemental or healing magic; most of their society would practice engineering and advancements in technology. Think using a robotic war unicorn Pegasus instead of a live animal for fighting or developing light bows that use hard light constructed arrows similar to green lantern energy. That's just for their warfare, take it even further; advancements in medicine, healing, agriculture, philosophy, the sciences, and so on.

[Gaius]

Maybe if Atlantis is 60% magic and 40% tech than Themyscira is 40% magic and 60% tech?

I mean the trope definition of Magitek (Magitech) is Advanced ubiquitous magic always seems to end up working just like technology. Obvious examples would be the asguardians in the MARVEL movies, and Jack Kirby's Fourth World tech. Even in the golden age the amazons used technology to create the purple healing ray and invisible jet.

An Isu AC: Odyssey example:

Think ancient Greek si-fi...



Amazons where gifted superhuman stats and agelessness. While I think that because they serve the Gods that their more devote followers would learn elemental or healing magic; most of their society would practice engineering and advancements in technology. Think using a robotic war unicorn Pegasus instead of a live animal for fighting or developing light bows that use hard light constructed arrows similar to green lantern energy. That's just for their warfare, take it even further; advancements in medicine, healing, agriculture, philosophy, the sciences, and so on.

Yeah, something along these lines is what I'd like to envision Themyscira as, just through in the floating islands from Jimenez's version.

[Tzigone]

Too epic to me, but it's all a matter of opinion. I want to see ordinary houses, shops (if they have them), fields if they or livestock need food - something more than just palaces and temples. Do they travel on foot or by animal (if not at all, they don't need paths). What do the ordinary parts of there city look like? This just doesn't look like a place people live to me. What the boring, mumdane jobs (growing food, making cooking pots and clothes) and to what degree are they automated? Do they do craft work out of their homes or have dedicated work places? How urban are they? Also, how many are there, because that has a huge impact on what their city looks like.

[Perseus]

Too epic to me, but it's all a matter of opinion. I want to see ordinary houses, shops (if they have them), fields if they or livestock need food - something more than just palaces and temples. Do they travel on foot or by animal (if not at all, they don't need paths). What do the ordinary parts of there city look like? This just doesn't look like a place people live to me. What the boring, mumdane jobs (growing food, making cooking pots and clothes) and to what degree are they automated? Do they do craft work out of their homes or have dedicated work places? How urban are they? Also, how many are there, because that has a huge impact on what their city looks like.

The image that I showed was of Elysium specifically so, that's probably why it seems over the top. I would argue that Paradise Island should reflect the Greek paradise in the afterlife. The general landscape should be similar; beautiful wildlife, flowers, and such. Most of the fancy stuff, like the palace and a garden, being part of the royal grounds. That huge palace is actually Persephone's place in the game. Basically, this would be a base model not the main city with the forums, amphitheatres, and businesses would be.

I think its important to have an epicness to it. Its paradise island after all!

amazon population is usually 3,000 to 7,000. which, I would go for the higher number, if only to expand the main island and its surrounding islands. Like, I'm thinking... you have the main island with Themyscira and the royal palace and gardens and main port and temples and Dooms doorway. Then, you have an island specifically for contests like the Olympics. Another island for reforming prisoners, that can be reformed. Another for a small fishing port. One island could have been "touched by Hades" or something and its mostly desolate. you know building on top of what her universe has to offer.

[VonHammersmark]

For me, Earth-1 Paradise Island is perfect, wouldn’t change anything about it. The Amazons have harnessed this spiritual energy called Orgone (aka life-force) and all their tech is powered by it which I think is pretty on-point because orgone is a life-giving and hence feminine force, as opposed to a destructive one

Besides, the Island is absolutely stunning, a veritable feast for the eyes