Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Nyssane]

Doctor Cyber should become a bigger thorn in Diana’s side. Become Diana’s Brainiac.

I don't think that's controversial. Fans seem to love Dr. Cyber. She was certainly the best part of Bloodlines.

[PopQuezy]

I don't think that's controversial. Fans seem to love Dr. Cyber. She was certainly the best part of Bloodlines.

Agreed. I think all the Doctors (Poison, Cyber, Psycho) are great villains just waiting for their opportunity to shine again. I mean there's a reason they've been able to survive and be associated with Diana, even when they are rarely used.

[Gaius]

Looking back, I do admit I may have been harder on William Marston's ideas than he deserved. I do think there is a bit too much reverence for his status quo from fans and high profile writers but I do think some of the things he did have merit. One of them being the Amazons having fighting style that granted superpowers. I do like it because it reminds me of shonen manga and anime I enjoy and it's a fairly simple explanation for how Donna would get powers (even if Marston didn't create Donna and likely never would have).



There's also making Vanessa Silver Swan and abolishing the monarchy. Jiminez did more to push the Wonder Woman mythos forward in a grand and natural way than most writers.

Yeah, I wished his new status quo for Themsyscira got to stick around longer than it did as Rucka got rid of it fairly early on his run.

[Agent Z]

Yeah, I wished his new status quo for Themsyscira got to stick around longer than it did as Rucka got rid of it fairly early on his run.

I don't recall Rucka getting rid of it. That happened with Amazons Attack.

[Pinsir]

I think Nubia shouldn't remain a part of the present canon and I find attempts to revive the character silly.

>>> First, the name Nubia is pretty cringey, like its a historical term for a region in northern Sudan. It gives off strong Mandarin vibes. Not to mention the term Nubia itself only came into existence after the collapse of the Kingdom of Kush (the ancient black kingdom that built pyramids and at one point ruled over Egypt and the Levant), so it wasn't used during the time of ancient Greece. The name Nubia is also loaded with some weird sexual baggage in the modern lingo, its kind of like calling a Chinese character Dragon Lady.
>>> Her origin story is really silly, like, I love it, but you can't copy and paste this idea in a contemporary, serious context. It wouldn't surprise me if the idea is ripped straight from a a blaxploitation film. It also implies some dumb things about human biology if you think about it too long (that black and white people are somehow opposites in a way we might think men and women are, which is also dumb).
>>> She's a character that thus far hasn't surpassed her first appearance. Attempts to bring her back in the comics haven't amounted for more than a call back. Phillipus has had more character growth and that character is the most typical, bland supporting cast member that has ever existed.

tl;dr she comes across as a dated idea similar to the invisible plane.

[Agent Z]

I think Nubia shouldn't remain a part of the present canon and I find attempts to revive the character silly.

>>> First, the name Nubia is pretty cringey, like its a historical term for a region in northern Sudan. It gives off strong Mandarin vibes. Not to mention the term Nubia itself only came into existence after the collapse of the Kingdom of Kush (the ancient black kingdom that built pyramids and at one point ruled over Egypt and the Levant), so it wasn't used during the time of ancient Greece. The name Nubia is also loaded with some weird sexual baggage in the modern lingo, its kind of like calling a Chinese character Dragon Lady.

There's a real life black man named Kenya Barris. You want to take up an issue with his name as well?

>>> Her origin story is really silly, like, I love it, but you can't copy and paste this idea in a contemporary, serious context. It wouldn't surprise me if the idea is ripped straight from a a blaxploitation film. It also implies some dumb things about human biology if you think about it too long (that black and white people are somehow opposites in a way we might think men and women are, which is also dumb).

Firstly, that's nothing to do with blaxploitation. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion but it's a weird take and that's saying something considering what you've said in the past. Secondly, Nubia's original backstory implied no such thing.

>>> She's a character that thus far hasn't surpassed her first appearance.

According to who? That people want her back suggests they see more to her than her original depiction.

Phillipus has had more character growth and that character is the most typical, bland supporting cast member that has ever existed.

If I had a dollar every time a fan said this about a black character while ignoring the thousands of other white characters with nothing resembling depth that people fawn over, I'd be rich enough to buy DC comics.

Given some of the stuff you've defended, you drawing the line at Nubia is questionable.

Neither Philippus nor Nubia are as bland or even dated as anything from the Silver Age or the majority of the Azzarello run which with each passing years feels like something that does belong in the 1940s instead of the 21st Century.

[Shadowcat]

I don't think that's controversial. Fans seem to love Dr. Cyber. She was certainly the best part of Bloodlines.

I thought this was the appreciation thread. Oops.

[Nyssane]

Neither Philippus nor Nubia are as bland or even dated as anything from the Silver Age or the majority of the Azzarello run which with each passing years feels like something that does belong in the 1940s instead of the 21st Century.

100% this. And the fact that Nubia is becoming such a big character now speaks to how fans have really taken to the character.

[Shadowcat]

100% this. And the fact that Nubia is becoming such a big character now speaks to how fans have really taken to the character.

I’ve waited decades for Nubia to be given the chance to shine.

[SiegePerilous02]

Neither Philippus nor Nubia are as bland or even dated as anything from the Silver Age or the majority of the Azzarello run which with each passing years feels like something that does belong in the 1940s instead of the 21st Century.

100% this. And the fact that Nubia is becoming such a big character now speaks to how fans have really taken to the character.

The Silver Age at least has the excuse of being from a bygone era. The problematic stuff from Azzarello is less easy to roll with because it has no business being around at this point.

I'm glad for the push with Nubia. I'm not thrilled with mantle sharing in general, but I still like her and I'm willing to overlook that if it means more panel time for her. I hope for more of a connection and use with Phillippus. Also hope that some of the revamped black Amazons like Aella and Venelia in Historia travel over to the mainline. Also curious to see what other race changes that comic will have. Euboea shouldn't have to be the only named Asian Amazon.

[Gaius]

Long lost twin/sibling is certainly hokey but it’s no more than so than other elements in superhero comics that are largely accepted, Supergirl is pretty much the same general idea if you just swap “twin” for “cousin” or even in other non-superhero media there’s stuff like Luke/Leia from Star Wars.

And with Jason, it’s pretty clear many at DC don’t think “lost twin” is a silly idea they just gave Nubia’s role to him.

[Shadowcat]

Long lost twin/sibling is certainly hokey but it’s no more than so than other elements in superhero comics that are largely accepted, Supergirl is pretty much the same general idea if you just swap “twin” for “cousin” or even in other non-superhero media there’s stuff like Luke/Leia from Star Wars.

And with Jason, it’s pretty clear many at DC don’t think “lost twin” is a silly idea they just gave Nubia’s role to him.

I actually don’t hate Jason, or Robinson’s run, and while not everything worked (Vanessa as the Silver Swan, the lame excuse why Jason hated Diana), I thought it was serviceable enough.

[Gaius]

I actually don’t hate Jason, or Robinson’s run, and while not everything worked (Vanessa as the Silver Swan, the lame excuse why Jason hated Diana), I thought it was serviceable enough.

That’s fair, there’s some issues I enjoy but Jason was just too much of a bad idea at the conceptual level for me I doubt even Diana’s best writers could have made him work.

I actually tend to think most of the “bad” WW writers are usually more when she’s written in other people’s books than the ones on her own title.

[Pinsir]

There's a real life black man named Kenya Barris. You want to take up an issue with his name as well?

There are names like Georgia, India, and Tennessee too. I'm not even against geographic names in principle, I just think Nubia is a cheesy name. I think it would have been a better idea to select an actual Nubian name, as the Kingdom of Kush is very well known for having a bunch of warrior queens.

Firstly, that's nothing to do with blaxploitation. I have no idea how you came to that conclusion but it's a weird take and that's saying something considering what you've said in the past. Secondly, Nubia's original backstory implied no such thing.

It's clearly of the same vein of Lois Lane stepping into a machine and stepping out as a black women. I may not have used the right word, but all these stories are drawing from the same cultural reservoir, where they wanted to tackle the subject of race, just some writers did it better than others and I think Nubia falls on the silly side.

According to who? That people want her back suggests they see more to her than her original depiction.

I mean, she had that one story in Jiminez's arc where she was dating Ahura Mazda I think, but that story is pretty forgotten, even here. Other than that, I think Nubia has only appeared afterwards as a sort of nod. The Nubia character had a really strong debut and I don't dislike her original appearance at all, but there are tons of characters that should stay in the past.

If I had a dollar every time a fan said this about a black character while ignoring the thousands of other white characters with nothing resembling depth that people fawn over, I'd be rich enough to buy DC comics.

Given some of the stuff you've defended, you drawing the line at Nubia is questionable.

I can't speak for others, but I don't like most of Wonder Woman's supporting cast; Donna Troy should be banned, Artemis has a dumb name, Etta Candy is only good with her Golden Age personality, the vast majority of Amazons are nameless whos.

The thing with Nubia and Phillippus though, is that right now they're kind of being treated as the same character. Philippus is essentially Hippolyta's second in command during the Post-Crisis era, like she had a good scene in Challenge of the Gods where she challenged Hippolyta's decision to descend into heck and the two of them fought, but I can't recall anything else Philippus did except be a general second in command. New 52 happens and Philippus disappears, she didn't come back for Rebirth either. Nubia did reappear recently though and, she is just a copy Philippus. Like she's just some high-ranking Amazon.

Neither Philippus nor Nubia are as bland or even dated as anything from the Silver Age or the majority of the Azzarello run which with each passing years feels like something that does belong in the 1940s instead of the 21st Century

I mean, I love Silver and Bronze Age Wonder Woman stories....

[Gaius]

There are names like Georgia, India, and Tennessee too. I'm not even against geographic names in principle, I just think Nubia is a cheesy name. I think it would have been a better idea to select an actual Nubian name, as the Kingdom of Kush is very well known for having a bunch of warrior queens.



It's clearly of the same vein of Lois Lane stepping into a machine and stepping out as a black women. I may not have used the right word, but all these stories are drawing from the same cultural reservoir, where they wanted to tackle the subject of race, just some writers did it better than others and I think Nubia falls on the silly side.




I mean, she had that one story in Jiminez's arc where she was dating Ahura Mazda I think, but that story is pretty forgotten, even here. Other than that, I think Nubia has only appeared afterwards as a sort of nod. The Nubia character had a really strong debut and I don't dislike her original appearance at all, but there are tons of characters that should stay in the past.



I can't speak for others, but I don't like most of Wonder Woman's supporting cast; Donna Troy should be banned, Artemis has a dumb name, Etta Candy is only good with her Golden Age personality, the vast majority of Amazons are nameless whos.

The thing with Nubia and Phillippus though, is that right now they're kind of being treated as the same character. Philippus is essentially Hippolyta's second in command during the Post-Crisis era, like she had a good scene in Challenge of the Gods where she challenged Hippolyta's decision to descend into heck and the two of them fought, but I can't recall anything else Philippus did except be a general second in command. New 52 happens and Philippus disappears, she didn't come back for Rebirth either. Nubia did reappear recently though and, she is just a copy Philippus. Like she's just some high-ranking Amazon.



I mean, I love Silver and Bronze Age Wonder Woman stories....

...?

Philippus appeared in like the the second issue of the Rebirth relaunch, first issue of Year One, and when we get scenes on Themyscira she’s shown being there.