Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[marhawkman]

While I also think its amazing....I can agree. After seeing so many different costumes on the Amazons...WW always somehow comes out with the weakest one. Hippolytas costume if reworked for the WW look..would be amazing.

The heels suck too. Honestly this is kinda like comparing a wrestler or boxer in their work out clothes with someone in their ring attire. WW's outfit is obviously her "casual clothes".

[FutureWonder]

While I also think its amazing....I can agree. After seeing so many different costumes on the Amazons...WW always somehow comes out with the weakest one. Hippolytas costume if reworked for the WW look..would be amazing.

Yes!
Any of the armors that they are wearing could be reworked to integrate the classic WW iconography. I would not include any of those long skirt things (keep the bottoms the average "gladiator-length") and I would ditch the heels. However, I would be fine with the heels if the top part of the costume were covered. It just reminds me so much of sex-kitten imagery.

[marhawkman]

Yes!
Any of the armors that they are wearing could be reworked to integrate the classic WW iconography. I would not include any of those long skirt things (keep the bottoms the average "gladiator-length") and I would ditch the heels. However, I would be fine with the heels if the top part of the costume were covered. It just reminds me so much of sex-kitten imagery.

yeah really, real boots don't have heels like that. It makes more sense for them to be flat over wedges.

#1(farthest left) has some weird dangly bits on her waist, they're hard to see under her cape though. Not sure why they're shin length, seems excessive.
#2(Hippolyta) yeah.. that's a weird split skirt. It'd work if it was knee-length. Why have it all the way down to the ankles?
#3: WW; the asymmetry is weird, and seemingly pointless.. which further makes it seem like it's not functional attire and decorative.
#4: it'd be good... if not for the gold colored patches to mark where her boobs are... seriously?

I didn't hate any of them at first, and I don't think they're terrible, but all of them are excessively "busy". The textures are the sort of thing you'd not see on real armor because it creates weak points.

Also 1 and 4 have mid-thigh length boots.... pretty sure that's not period appropriate... or functional as armor. Seriously the Greeks had thigh armor instead of extra-long boots.

[John Venus]

While I also think its amazing....I can agree. After seeing so many different costumes on the Amazons...WW always somehow comes out with the weakest one. Hippolytas costume if reworked for the WW look..would be amazing.

I think the costumes are meant to convey the fact that Diana is young, innoccent and naive compared to other Amazon's who literally and figuratively armor up.

Still, I think the costumes could be better. Hippolyta doesn't really stand out and she's supposed to be the Queen. There are all sorts of weird lines and texture that serves no purpose. The 'S' shield on Superman's chest is meant make his chest look bigger, in AOU Steve Roger's costume had these red lines emanating from the star on his chest in order to make his chest look wider. In movie WW's costume, it feels like the eyes are being guided towards her thighs or the parts that aren't covered by her costume.

[Gaius]

I like Hippolyta' outfit, think the only change I'd make would be to add some purple to the non-gold parts.

[Marik Swift]

Not sure if I've said this before, but Diana shouldn't be THE BEST Amazon at everything.

She should have won the contest because she has the best values amongst the Amazon, but in terms of skills, intellect, beauty, etc, she should be above average at best. Wonder Woman should be about inclusion and there's nothing inclusive about putting one woman above all the others on Themyscira. She should be better than no more than 80% of the Amazon's in each field and would have overall won the contest cause she has the purest heart and her overall average score in the contest was the best.

[Tzigone]

Not sure if I've said this before, but Diana shouldn't be THE BEST Amazon at everything.

She should have won the contest because she has the best values amongst the Amazon, but in terms of skills, intellect, beauty, etc, she should be average at best. Wonder Woman should be about inclusion and there's nothing inclusive about putting one woman above all the others on Themyscira. She should be better than no more than 20% of the Amazon's in each field and would have overall won the contest cause she has the purest heart and her overall average score in the contest was the best.

I agree she shouldn't be the best at everything, but I don't think purity of heart is testable (nor do I think she should exceed them all at that) and think she should win the challenge because she was the best (overall) at the skills tested. I don't think I'd make her "average" but certainly not best at everything. And better than no more than 20% at each field tested would probably make her well below average, at least if they were related (martial) skills, as originally tested. Though there's no reason for her to be exceptional or even average among Amazons in medical skills, technology, beauty, art, languages, weaving, cooking, dancing, poetry, politics, etc. But she does need to excel in the areas that made her chosen as the hero - not necessarily be top in all, but among the upper levels.

I do strongly favor all Amazons having the same powers. Diana's skill and her being awarded the lasso because of her skill and winning the competition are the differences to me.

[Marik Swift]

I agree she shouldn't be the best at everything, but I don't think purity of heart is testable (nor do I think she should exceed them all at that) and think she should win the challenge because she was the best (overall) at the skills tested. I don't think I'd make her "average" but certainly not best at everything. And better than no more than 20% at each field tested would probably make her well below average, at least if they were related (martial) skills, as originally tested. Though there's no reason for her to be exceptional or even average among Amazons in medical skills, technology, beauty, art, languages, weaving, cooking, dancing, poetry, politics, etc. But she does need to excel in the areas that made her chosen as the hero - not necessarily be top in all, but among the upper levels.

I do strongly favor all Amazons having the same powers. Diana's skill and her being awarded the lasso because of her skill and winning the competition are the differences to me.

Sorry, meant to put above average. Meant better than 80%. Sorry was posting in a bit of a rush.

But yea, overall, I see it all as the higher the bar is set for the Amazon's, the better it, in turn, makes Diana look even if she's just above average in every category. It's definitely part of the problems with the Amazon's as to why they don't get enough respect and credit, cause writers treat them as just set pieces to Diana, rather than making them credible in their own right. Being the best out of a bunch of nobodies only lowers her stock. Imagine if Michael Jordon was the best basket player amongst a bunch of junior high players.

I want to see Diana beating Batman in a fair fight (no powers), and then Artemis handing Diana her ass like nothing, meanwhile Artemis acknowledging that she isn't even in the top 100 of Amazon's in fighting skills.

[Primal Slayer]

I dont think Diana needs to be the best fighter but are we talking about a Diana that was shielded from training while growing up or a Diana that was taught by the best of the best while growing up? Because since she is the Princess, either she is going to have the best of the best or be treated like a delicate flower. If she gets trained by the best of the best, she gonna be up there in terms of skill.

[SiegePerilous02]

She has the divine blessings that most other Amazons don't have. Historia is apparently going to have at least have the founding Amazons each have one of the powers she's known for depending on which goddess they follow, but she has all six of those powers in one person. So she has all the powers and had training under various fields and skills from the Amazon masters. While she may never surpass any of those masters in their individual fields, she's going to have all their skills plus powers, so it's going to put her near the top if not #1.

As far as this goes, I'm a Marston purist. I think the only other Amazon that she arguably can't surpass should be Hippolyta, and even then it's ambiguous.

[Gaius]

I'm with Siege, it isn't a knock on the other Amazons if they're not better than Diana.

If you think writers treat them as set pieces to Diana, well that's because that's ultimately what they are. Same way the alien GLs will always play backseat to the human ones. You can write them better without knocking Diana down a peg.

[Marik Swift]

She has the divine blessings that most other Amazons don't have. Historia is apparently going to have at least have the founding Amazons each have one of the powers she's known for depending on which goddess they follow, but she has all six of those powers in one person. So she has all the powers and had training under various fields and skills from the Amazon masters. While she may never surpass any of those masters in their individual fields, she's going to have all their skills plus powers, so it's going to put her near the top if not #1.

As far as this goes, I'm a Marston purist. I think the only other Amazon that she arguably can't surpass should be Hippolyta, and even then it's ambiguous.

I'm with Siege, it isn't a knock on the other Amazons if they're not better than Diana.

If you think writers treat them as set pieces to Diana, well that's because that's ultimately what they are. Same way the alien GLs will always play backseat to the human ones. You can write them better without knocking Diana down a peg.

All of this is going off her being born with the powers—which in itself is a divided controversial opinion amongst her fans on a whole. I'm definitely in the camp that believes she shouldn't be born/created with powers. Cause while I'm a bit of a Marston "purist" myself (I do believe she should have invented the invisible jet and I'm also one of the most outspoken supporters of Loving Submission), again, it's just not inclusive to put Diana on a pedestal above the other Amazons.

Sure, the Amazons are set pieces, but at the end of the day a story is only ever as good as it's characters. You would never hear a Superman fan calling Lois or the Daily Planet just set pieces. Take out these so called "set pieces" and you might as well just make Wonder Woman a story about her running around fighting people, because if these set pieces are so insignificant, then so too are the values they bestowed in her.

And how is it knocking Diana down a peg? She's still vastly superior to any hero on Earth in these categories. Is the 100th strongest Man in the world somehow now not impressive cause he's 100th? It's only knocking her down a peg cause you choose to see it that way.

I dont think Diana needs to be the best fighter but are we talking about a Diana that was shielded from training while growing up or a Diana that was taught by the best of the best while growing up? Because since she is the Princess, either she is going to have the best of the best or be treated like a delicate flower. If she gets trained by the best of the best, she gonna be up there in terms of skill.

Even in stories where she's shielded, Diana is always taught by the best of the best, so really doesn't make a difference I think. ALL the Amazons were taught by the best of the Amazons. And even if we assume she alone was taught by the best, that doesn't matter much I think cause you could be taught by the best and still not be the best in many cases.

[Guy_McNichts]

I understand not wanting Diana to completely overshadow the other Amazons and tone down the "super chosen one destined to be better than everyone" aspect. But if you go too far with that, and you rob Diana of anything that makes her special among her sisters--be it her powers, or her exceptional skills, or anything else--then why is she even the protagonist?

And from there, we're only a step or two away from "ditch Diana and replace her with literally ANY other Amazon because they're interchangeable."

I get overemphasizing Diana as the one and only Special can undermine her as an empowering figure, but she is still the protagonist. Certain other Amazons can surpass her in a particular area...like maybe Nubia can be the better pure hand-to-hand fighter...but she should be "the best" Amazon overall.

The notion of a Hero's Journey is the hero becomes the master of whatever they set out for. Diana winning the Contest should be the moment she becomes the master among her people before she faces new challenges in the Man's World.

[John Venus]

I like Hippolyta' outfit, think the only change I'd make would be to add some purple to the non-gold parts.

And give her dark hair. IMO, Hippolyta's Rebirth design is her best one.

[marhawkman]

She has the divine blessings that most other Amazons don't have. Historia is apparently going to have at least have the founding Amazons each have one of the powers she's known for depending on which goddess they follow, but she has all six of those powers in one person. So she has all the powers and had training under various fields and skills from the Amazon masters. While she may never surpass any of those masters in their individual fields, she's going to have all their skills plus powers, so it's going to put her near the top if not #1.

As far as this goes, I'm a Marston purist. I think the only other Amazon that she arguably can't surpass should be Hippolyta, and even then it's ambiguous.

Certain takes on Hippolyta give her powers the other Amazons don't have.... because these powers are her birthright as a demi-goddess.