Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Agent Z]

When people talk about Diana redeeming her villains, it often comes across like they feel the onus is on Diana to find non-violent solutions and not the villains. This comes across as rather unempathetic to Diana or the villains' victims.

To be clear, this doesn't apply to villains who were evil because they were possessed or mind controlled.

[I'm a Fish]

When people talk about Diana redeeming her villains, it often comes across like they feel the onus is on Diana to find non-violent solutions and not the villains. This comes across as rather unempathetic to Diana or the villains' victims.

To be clear, this doesn't apply to villains who were evil because they were possessed or mind controlled.

With that clarification, it isn't Diana's responsibility to reform her villains, it's the governments (with the exception of villains like Circe and Ares). But where's the fun in a story like that? It's more fun and really speaks to Diana's character that she takes time to help them 1 on 1.
And it's her book, her characters, I don't want to see some rando government psychologist do it or see WW villain get reformed in a book that isn't hers. Character interactions are an integral part of story telling after all. And ultimately, the villains exist for Diana, so from a story telling perspective, it makes sense for her to be a part of their reformation in some way (if DC Would ever let them get reformed of corse.)

Plus, again, the DC government treats the villains terribly....so....

As for the finding non-violent solutions, the heroes job is to de-escalate. If the villain refuses to back down and a fight breaks out, that's not on Diana, but the villain will never take the first step, because for most villains, they don't think they are doing anything wrong. Plus, the lasso is sort of the ultimate de-escalation tool.

I think, the whole area is very grey. You have villains like Giganta and Pschyo, who are usually depicted as being sane (aware of their actions) and are by all accounts accountable, but they still exist in a world that weaponizes them for their abilities. So they are really stuck between a rock and a hard place, because even though they put themselves in that hole they aren't given the option to climb out of it. (Edit: of corse there's always the argument that they don't want too).

But all confrontations between Diana and her foes very, maybe sometimes it is better for her to try and go for a sucker-punch. It all depends on the story.

[Agent Z]

With that clarification, it isn't Diana's responsibility to reform her villains, it's the governments (with the exception of villains like Circe and Ares). But where's the fun in a story like that? It's more fun and really speaks to Diana's character that she takes time to help them 1 on 1.
And it's her book, her characters, I don't want to see some rando government psychologist do it or see WW villain get reformed in a book that isn't hers. Character interactions are an integral part of story telling after all. And ultimately, the villains exist for Diana, so from a story telling perspective, it makes sense for her to be a part of their reformation in some way (if DC Would ever let them get reformed of corse.)

Plus, again, the DC government treats the villains terribly....so....

As for the finding non-violent solutions, the heroes job is to de-escalate. If the villain refuses to back down and a fight breaks out, that's not on Diana, but the villain will never take the first step, because for most villains, they don't think they are doing anything wrong. Plus, the lasso is sort of the ultimate de-escalation tool.

I think, the whole area is very grey. You have villains like Giganta and Pschyo, who are usually depicted as being sane (aware of their actions) and are by all accounts accountable, but they still exist in a world that weaponizes them for their abilities. So they are really stuck between a rock and a hard place, because even though they put themselves in that hole they aren't given the option to climb out of it. (Edit: of corse there's always the argument that they don't want too).

But all confrontations between Diana and her foes very, maybe sometimes it is better for her to try and go for a sucker-punch. It all depends on the story.

Well, I never said I wanted the government to do it, just that Diana shouldn't be trying to redeem people past the point of reason. A person who is mind controlled or possessed into being evil is very different from someone committing horrendous atrocities of their own free will. I'm not even against Diana trying to rehabilitate some of her less evil rogues like Angle Man but someone like Circe, Ares or most versions of Barbara Minerva seem too far gone.

[AmiMizuno]

I still would like transformation island. There could be another part for the more too far gone villains. Going by to the golden age. They can go and Venus belt. The differences between them is they still have freedoms but can't attack anyone or kill anyone.

Thinking about it what if the Doom Gate was where all the terrible villains were? Instead of a portal to hell?

[marhawkman]

Well, I never said I wanted the government to do it, just that Diana shouldn't be trying to redeem people past the point of reason. A person who is mind controlled or possessed into being evil is very different from someone committing horrendous atrocities of their own free will. I'm not even against Diana trying to rehabilitate some of her less evil rogues like Angle Man but someone like Circe, Ares or most versions of Barbara Minerva seem too far gone.

Funny thing though.... There's a reason Diana tries... it's because she knows that they both have a good side. It really seemed to have a more lasting effect on Circe than she wanted to admit. Ares? Yeah, but in the case of Circe.... Circe spends most of her time ..... doing non-supervillain stuff.

[John Venus]

I like stories about redemption, grays areas and the complexities of human nature and society. WW is the perfect vehicle to explore that. Reality is rarely as black and white as pop culture may make it seem. We are meant to assume that every single bad guy killed by the gun blazing action hero had it coming, no questions asked. Due to the nature of comics, villains often end up coming back over and over again, which makes heroes seem ineffective and redemption almost laughable concept and I don't think that's really a good message to send. I grew up watching B:TAS, the best stories were the ones that showed the villains as people, struck down by the same circumstances that harms us in RL and in their own way tried to live a life that was normal to them or tried to redeem themselves.

[I'm a Fish]

I liked when Ares was reformed, (or as reformed as he can be) in Post-Crisis. Rebirth, he wasn't a villain until later, and even then he was severely misguided until Wonder Woman talked him off his path. ~now who knows what he is~

Rebirth Circe is also less evil than her Post-Crisis counterpart. She's more chaotic neutral. And with the way Justice League: Dark ended, maybe she is reformed? She is currently in a painting...so she is dealt with ATM.

[Gaius]

I liked when Ares was reformed, (or as reformed as he can be) in Post-Crisis. Rebirth, he wasn't a villain until later, and even then he was severely misguided until Wonder Woman talked him off his path. ~now who knows what he is~

Rebirth Circe is also less evil than her Post-Crisis counterpart. She's more chaotic neutral. And with the way Justice League: Dark ended, maybe she is reformed? She is currently in a painting...so she is dealt with ATM.

I thought Wilson's Ares arc from her run did some interesting stuff with the concept. Even though it ended up being the highpoint of her run.

I liked Ares' more villainous neutral stance from Rucka's first run. Built off well what previous writers like Perez did imo.

[I'm a Fish]

I thought Wilson's Ares arc from her run did some interesting stuff with the concept. Even though it ended up being the highpoint of her run.

I liked Ares' more villainous neutral stance from Rucka's first run. Built off well what previous writers like Perez did imo.

I haven't read Wilson's run in forever so I forgot the details. Perhaps I should revisit.

[marhawkman]

I liked when Ares was reformed, (or as reformed as he can be) in Post-Crisis. Rebirth, he wasn't a villain until later, and even then he was severely misguided until Wonder Woman talked him off his path. ~now who knows what he is~

Rebirth Circe is also less evil than her Post-Crisis counterpart. She's more chaotic neutral. And with the way Justice League: Dark ended, maybe she is reformed? She is currently in a painting...so she is dealt with ATM.

One of the most interesting things I 've seen Ares used for was in Teen Titans. Because reasons Zeus could no longer give divine empowerment to Cassie. So Ares offers to fill in for him. Then we have a story arc where Cassie is a champion of Ares. Yes, he had an ulterior motive and people get killed because of it, but it was a subtle background plot that wasn't directly about hurting the Titans. It was some pretty hardcore war god stuff though. It also had the weirdness of the supervillain in the story(Lycus) calling Cassie "aunt"... because technically she was. That really makes a character "feel" older... without changing the character at all.

[Agent Z]

I'd also rather Diana focus on the victims of villains than the villains themselves.

[AmiMizuno]

I'd also rather Diana focus on the victims of villains than the villains themselves.

Why not have her deal with both the victims of villains and the villains themselves? Why not have one being the Wonder Dome dealing with people who have been harmed and the other to some magic island for the Villains to be places. At least the more magically ones

[John Venus]

I'd also rather Diana focus on the victims of villains than the villains themselves.

Why not both? Especially when a lot of villains are victims of circumstances themselves?

[Agent Z]

Why not have her deal with both the victims of villains and the villains themselves? Why not have one being the Wonder Dome dealing with people who have been harmed and the other to some magic island for the Villains to be places. At least the more magically ones

Why not both? Especially when a lot of villains are victims of circumstances themselves?

Fair enough. But I hardly ever see anyone suggesting she do both. It's almost always Diana prioritizing the villains over their victins that is suggested.

[AmiMizuno]

At this point I think DC stopped caring about Diana or the other characters. Maybe it's time they take a break from having them be in a shared universe. Because JL she been inconsistent. They don't have care in her main cast. So it's time she be and maybe all the others be n their own universe. I mean this new JL really doesn't need to happen it could be it's own universe because we have so many other JL members or even some Titans that make more sense. Yes they are a business but they stop caring. Diana is weak and now it's time to just give us and let each character be on their own world. That way the editors can't can't say anything and writers can use Donna or Cassie.