Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Alpha]

Wait, is that inspired by Death of the Endless :

Yup. I think it would be a fascinating romance.

[Robanker]

Diana being paired with Bruce is just another manifestation of Bat-God. In that it's always portrayed/justified in ways that plays to Batman’s ego (“she’d find him so noble and admirable for pushing himself to his limits”, “Bruce doesn’t have to worry about his enemies!”) and so reduces Wonder Woman to arm candy/cheerleader for Batman. That her having a crush on Batman is the most long-lasting legacy of DCAU Wondy is just evidence to me of how little the creators of those shows cared about her as a character.





What Robanker talked about pretty much happened in Tom King's Batman run where he used Diana in a storyline as a seductress figure to test Bruce's loyalty to Catwoman.

Also when he punched Robin. The explanation made it worse. Apparently they've crafted a language through violence so the specific kind of strike can be used as shorthand to indicate messages, so presumably a punch to the mouth means someone is going deep cover or something.

That sort of thing needs to be rehearsed and internalized. Think about that a minute. He had to explain to his kids that if he hits them a specific way, it means something, and then he had to show them so they'd recognize it in the field. Tell me more about how there's no other way to get that across.

I'm always reading Batman in some fashion or other, and he's long since been a good person. He's always a duplicitous ******* who is punching his kids, planning to kill his friends (including her), double crossing and verbally abusing all his allies and surrogate family all under the guise of being a better protector rather than actually striving to be a better protector. He is decidedly not someone Diana would fall in love with. If it wasn't for his market power, Bruce wouldn't have any friends in the Justice League. He isn't even consistent with his morality. He's fiercely against guns and using murder, but he's fine with Jason's use of them and occasional backslide into wanton murder. Alfred makes sense. He's an untrained old man. He would need the shotgun to protect himself. Jason Todd? Please. That kid could non-lethally take out an entire squad of goons if he wanted to.

He's a compulsive liar, chronic betrayer and massive hypocrite-- all of which Diana would find repugnant. He has his redeeming qualities to be sure, and it's why they're friends, but those flaws would prevent any more than that.

He is no longer a good person and his momentary sojourns to decency never last long enough for me to walk that opinion back. It's been a very long time since BTAS and the Bronze Age, dude.

Modern Bruce Wayne is a neurotic mess. It may make him compelling to read about, but it also paints him as someone characters with strong moral compasses wouldn't fall in love with. They've known him so long perhaps he's in their "he's an ******* now but he wasn't always and I guess he's our *******" friend slot, but a significant romantic entanglement? No, and not even Rucka can convince me otherwise.

At least Superman is fundamentally a good person and holds similar values to her own, so while I don't like SuperWonder and would prefer they only ever be friends, I can understand an attraction beyond the physical for those two. I can kind of see Bronze Age Bruce with Diana. He was a much more upright person then. But again, that was ages ago.

[Gitagon]

I did like her relationship with Nemesis.

I'd also like to see her in a genuine lesbian relationship rather than WB just saying she's bi without putting their money where their mouth is. Has she even kissed a woman within DC pages. It would probably be with Artemis if I had a say. I ship Diana x Artemis so much. I'd even like to see a relationship with Minerva before she turned bad. It would make stuff between them much much more personal and dramatic.

As for Steve, I prefer when their relationship is more comedic like Marston era. He doesn't really bring much to the table and he isn't as iconic as Lois or Selina. Both Lois and Selina have headlined comics and even graphic novels while Steve has nothing.

Not a fan of Bat-Wondy or Sup-Wondy cause you can be sure Diana is not only treated as needy suductress doubling as arm candy, but becomes magnitudes weaker and dumber so Bats or Sups can swoop in to save the day. I'd say it's blatant misogyny hardcorded into most writers brains to write men as "heroic" and women as damsels. I was watching "Shadow and Bone" recently and it's basically the same thing even when the writers are women. Somehow a woman with a powerful power needs to be saved by a weak man (Batman).

Anyway, I hope Diana is kept away from Bruce and Clark forever.

And of course after Bruce and Clark finish playing around with Diana, they go running back to Selina and Lois ASAP. Diana just can't compete with those 2 and that's why she needs her own independent world and a supporting cast strong enough to stand up to those 2. If Steve is to remain the love interest, then he needs an Overhaul. Sometimes it's something as little as a more interesting character design and personality. Chris Pine worked and it's not like the studio did any outrageous changes. He was just too handsome 'lol' and had chemistry with Gadot, which is something maybe writers don't get Diana and Steve in the comics.

[Alpha]

Speaking as someone who has been down the path of various hook ups, fwb, and one night stands its not good for the mind or soul. Its not the romance or closeness people expect it to be, you feel very alone at times wondering if there is even a point to finding someone to just be in love with. Yeah I met some nice people and I got some great advise on life but we don't talk anymore, you see a few people and then everyone just move on. I'm not going to go into detail, but that's why I think people misunderstand Bruce's play boy persona, its actual not a joke, he is lonely and it hurts, but he's suppose to be "alpha and cool and look how many girls he's with" its just not realistic.

This is getting a bit personal. What I'm saying is that Diana can both have long term relationships and one night stands. Neither one cheapens the other.

[Perseus]

This is getting a bit personal. What I'm saying is that Diana can both have long term relationships and one night stands. Neither one cheapens the other.

I used my experience because that's the real world, we play with fantasy people but the relationships need to be real, sorry if it made you uncomfortable.

I see what your saying, but you can have these close relationships without any sex or one night stands. I think Diana and Spectre or Death of the Endless would have a surprisingly close and meaningful relationships with one another, but I don't think it needs to be a romantic one.

[Alpha]

Normally the characters are written far better and especially Bruce and Diana have a good chemistry in the Team, they work well together character wise.

I'm not very interested in Diana "fixing" someone. That's what a relationship with Bruce and Max Lord would turn into. Bruce is a cynical, brooding, distant and obsessive type. Give him someone else to date if you hate the Catwoman romance so much (I myself loved the King run until issue 54). Let Bruce date Zatanna or Vixen. Those actually seem like good romances for him.

But I want Wonder Woman with someone that excites her. Someone artistic, passionate and uniquely talented. Someone pure of heart but in a beautiful way. Steve Trevor can easily fill the Batman type if you write him that way. He can even fill the Max Lord type. But again, we've already had Steve Trevor and I see no need for more romance with him or anybody he could replace.

Artemis is just another person in the category of Batman and Max Lord, except with boobs

[Perseus]

I'm not very interested in Diana "fixing" someone. That's what a relationship with Bruce and Max Lord would turn into. Bruce is a cynical, brooding, distant and obsessive type. Give him someone else to date if you hate the Catwoman romance so much (I myself loved the King run until issue 54). Let Bruce date Zatanna or Vixen. Those actually seem like good romances for him.

But I want Wonder Woman with someone that excites her. Someone artistic, passionate and uniquely talented. Someone pure of heart but in a beautiful way. Steve Trevor can easily fill the Batman type if you write him that way. He can even fill the Max Lord type. But again, we've already had Steve Trevor and I see no need for more romance with him or anybody he could replace.

Artemis is just another person in the category of Batman and Max Lord, except with boobs

That sounds a lot like Kyle Rayner.

[Alpha]

I used my experience because that's the real world, we play with fantasy people but the relationships need to be real, sorry if it made you uncomfortable.

I just didn't wanna go there because I didn't want to say something that could be percieved as criticizing your life.

I see what your saying, but you can have these close relationships without any sex or one night stands. I think Diana and Spectre or Death of the Endless would have a surprisingly close and meaningful relationships with one another, but I don't think it needs to be a romantic one.

It certainly doesn't have to be romantic, but I find it more interesting as a romance than if it was with Steve Trevor, or Artemis, or Batman, or Max Lord. People always like to put "optimistic" characters with more "edgy" people. And while I do often like it, I feel like Diana is a great example of someone that falls in love with the fantastical beauty of others, and I feel like we should give her some trully special souls for her to bond with, like those I mentioned. People are nice, but also have something adventurous and artistic about them.

I don't know. I just look at her past relationships and get sad at how unremarkable those people are in the grand scheme of things. Trevor Barnes and Steve Trevor and heck, even Superman were really nice people, but not really extraordinary in that sense (Superman is the most typical super hero and I find him fascinating, but it just seems too typical for Diana). Batman and Nemesis fit the other type, people that just can't enjoy life the way Diana wants to. And honestly, they aren't very extraordinary either.

[Alpha]

That sounds a lot like Kyle Rayner.

Kyle Rayner is an artist in our normal sense. B'wanna Beast (or Freedom Beast) fuse animals together and create a whole new species. That to me is the kind of art that Diana would be fascinated by. They also have a deep connection with the animal kingdom that I think Diana would love to experience with them. And they both sacrifice their easy lives for a true cause nobody else seems to care about.

[Perseus]

Kyle Rayner is an artist in our normal sense. B'wanna Beast (or Freedom Beast) fuse animals together and create a whole new species. That to me is the kind of art that Diana would be fascinated by. They also have a deep connection with the animal kingdom that I think Diana would love to experience with them. And they both sacrifice their easy lives for a true cause nobody else seems to care about.

I mean I guess, I think she would kind of see it as messing with nature. I wouldn't say that love/unity with nature however would make them romantically compatible.

[Robanker]

I used my experience because that's the real world, we play with fantasy people but the relationships need to be real, sorry if it made you uncomfortable.

Not to be rude or dismissive, but your experiences aren't universal. They don't match the rest of the world. Some have it better, others worse, and everywhere in between. Use them as a touchstone to better contextualize what you encounter but don't assume that just because the experience was negative for you that it must follow suit for everyone else. For some, one night stands are more meaningful than romantic relationships. That's alien a concept to me but I know people like that. They just find other people who feel similarly. That's also the real world. It's complicated.


Kyle Rayner is an interesting choice for Diana, but if we're getting away from Steve I think it's finally time she be with a woman, primarily one created in her books. They finally admitted Diana is bisexual and to pair her up with another new male love interest when they can't get Steve to work and are thankfully giving Trinity shipping a rest just seems like another in a long line of missed opportunities.

[SiegePerilous02]

He is no longer a good person and his momentary sojourns to decency never last long enough for me to walk that opinion back. It's been a very long time since BTAS and the Bronze Age, dude.

Modern Bruce Wayne is a neurotic mess. It may make him compelling to read about, but it also paints him as someone characters with strong moral compasses wouldn't fall in love with. They've known him so long perhaps he's in their "he's an ******* now but he wasn't always and I guess he's our *******" friend slot, but a significant romantic entanglement? No, and not even Rucka can convince me otherwise.

At least Superman is fundamentally a good person and holds similar values to her own, so while I don't like SuperWonder and would prefer they only ever be friends, I can understand an attraction beyond the physical for those two. I can kind of see Bronze Age Bruce with Diana. He was a much more upright person then. But again, that was ages ago.

This is why I fully support hitting the "reboot" button on Batman. The well is poisoned for him, and I want the non-crappy one back.

Or kill him off in the main canon and let all the Bat-Family take over, and give us a couple titles with a rebooted younger Batman with all the baggage dropped from him so he can be an unambiguous good person again. It's like they've turned him into a villain protagonist, but also don't fully commit to the idea, so it's this unsatisfying middle ground where he just sucks and is boring.

Buuuut, to bring it back to Diana, I fully support her never touching Modern Batman with a ten foot pole but would be open to her having a "friends with benefits" thing going on with Bronze Age Batman.

[Perseus]

Kyle Rayner is an interesting choice for Diana, but if we're getting away from Steve I think it's finally time she be with a woman, primarily one created in her books. They finally admitted Diana is bisexual and to pair her up with another new male love interest when they can't get Steve to work and are thankfully giving Trinity shipping a rest just seems like another in a long line of missed opportunities.

I think if she was going to be with any lantern it would be him. Kyle is sweet, caring, funny, and just wild enough for Diana to have fun with and not go over board.

I'm still not big or convinced that Diana being Bi has any real impact, it just feels like people on twitter making every character gay for whatever reason. I'm not inherently opposed to it, but I don't think Diana being Bi was revolutionary or that she couldn't work like a proud supportive mama with the other LGBT+ characters in the mythos. I think Mala would kind of work if only because Mala is like a blank slate as far as relationships go, but its still the idea of an amazon just waiting until Diana reached "legal banging age" to start a romantic relationship with her.

[9th.]

I honestly don't see the fascination with Diana / Batman, Diana / Superman, Diana / Steve Trevor. Are those really the type of relationships people think would interest a character like Diana at this pointworld, after all this time?

Don't you want to see her date a rich guy that gave up his whole fortune to become the protector of the animal kingdom deep in the forest, and spends his days creating new species of animals with his magical powers?

Or maybe Diana would fall in love with a peaceful goth girl that spends her days visiting people on their last day of life and helping them find inner peace with her company.

Or maybe she would fall in love with someone weirder and extraordinary. Someone with a totally unique experience of the world like Dream Girl, a beautiful alien with plantinum hair that has the gift of precognition and astral projection. A woman that can literally feel the future at every second and is constantly trying to better the real world so that the visions that plague her become those of a good future.

I wanna see her see date another woman, maybe a history buff or archeologist.

[I'm a Fish]

I wanna see her see date another woman, maybe a history buff or archeologist.

A teacher would be nice too. Since Diana herself is often regarded as teacher.