Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[marhawkman]

I think that the issue is mis-using the Trinity Idea and not just over-using it. It's an idea best used outside the standard superhero stuff, like eating dinner or something like that. Having them as the "core" of the Justice League.... doesn't work well in practice because it kinda leaves out most of the League... that makes more sense with the original 7, but even then it's not a lot of people.

[marhawkman]

Or do a twist on WonderBat and Joker develops a one sided crush on Priscilla when he finds a lady crazier than him.

Or Circe maybe? They could bond over Joker's love of Hyenas.

[Gaius]

It also hurts to me because their are several DC characters who are more natural crossover characters for her who dont show up nearly as much as they should because DC is obsessed with Making Wonderwoman a third unequal leg that tags along with Batman and Supes.

I feel Aqua-man and Mera to be natural crossover candidates with Wonderwoman’s world, infact I think I think it would be most beneficial for both franchises to cross over more then they do.

Shazam: also has more crossover potential.

To me these three could form a kind of myth based trinity of their own. Dc’s magic based characters should also show up more.

It's not so much there's more natural characters for to crossover with (Supes is an sci-fi character and Bats is rich ninja detective, so those two hanging out is weird when looked at a certain POV).

More what other posters got at and that writers and DC have pretty much poisoned the well on me wanting her being on even friendly terms with the two; DCAU, Injustice, both versions of Justice League, Red Son, Kingdom Come, DCeased,

[Nyssane]

It's really odd that Cheetah fares better on the rare occasions she hangs out with Lex and Joker than Diana does with Clark and Bruce.

I would totally read a series that is just alternating stories of both sets of three hanging out with each other.

What I love about Cheetah as part of the Evil Trinity is that she is easily the most powerful member. Sure, Luthor in his suit can be a heavy hitter, but in terms of brute force Cheetah has him beat (and obviously Joker too).

[SiegePerilous02]

What I love about Cheetah as part of the Evil Trinity is that she is easily the most powerful member. Sure, Luthor in his suit can be a heavy hitter, but in terms of brute force Cheetah has him beat (and obviously Joker too).

Yes, it's a very interesting twist on it. Cheetah is the only one of the three who is innately powerful just on her own, enough to stand up to friggin Wonder Woman. Joker is a sneaky ******* who can catch Bats unawares and is stronger than his wiry frame would have you believe, but as a rule Batman can manhandle him if he's on his A-game. And Lex needs mecha suits to stand up to Superman.

I want a mini-series focusing on the three, but I'm not sure we have a writer who could nail all three "voices." I'd want Rucka's Cheetah and Morrison's Lex. And I definitely won't accept anybody but Paul Dini for Joker at this point, he'd be the only one who can make Mr. J entertaining and engaging.

It's not so much there's more natural characters for to crossover with (Supes is an sci-fi character and Bats is rich ninja detective, so those two hanging out is weird when looked at a certain POV).

More what other posters got at and that writers and DC have pretty much poisoned the well on me wanting her being on even friendly terms with the two; DCAU, Injustice, both versions of Justice League, Red Son, Kingdom Come, DCeased,

Yeah. Like I said, things are dire when an appearance from Superman or Batman fills us with dread instead of excitement.

I think the only thing that could get me to give a sigh of relief is if the company was bought out by someone else and we got a reboot. Which isn't desirable overall (at least the reboot part), but at least it would be a clean slate for the Trinity.

[Robanker]

What I love about Cheetah as part of the Evil Trinity is that she is easily the most powerful member. Sure, Luthor in his suit can be a heavy hitter, but in terms of brute force Cheetah has him beat (and obviously Joker too).

Probably why they never get together. DC won't allow Cheetah to "emasculate" their two biggest villains after Darkseid.

Cheetah absolutely should be on their level. I do think of the three, Lex has the highest threat ceiling, but there's zero reason Cheetah isn't put on their league other than good ol' fashioned bullshit editorial politics. She's much more terrifying than The Joker in the right hands.

[SiegePerilous02]

Probably why they never get together. DC won't allow Cheetah to "emasculate" their two biggest villains after Darkseid.

Cheetah absolutely should be on their level. I do think of the three, Lex has the highest threat ceiling, but there's zero reason Cheetah isn't put on their league other than good ol' fashioned bullshit editorial politics. She's much more terrifying than The Joker in the right hands.

Absolutely. She's been scarier than the Joker since Rebirth, precisely because its a mixture of unsettling tragedy of her situation, the uncanny valley of her design and the fact that there is the foundation for a trajectory for her to become more and more monstrous despite sympathetic beginnings.

The modern Joker isn't scary because he no longer has anything else mixed in with it like he used to and she currently at least has the potential for. He's just "scary crazy guy with body count." The Joker was much more effective when he was genuinely funny and could be disarming, so his more lethal moments would be rare and come as a shock. He has no scary mood swings anymore, he's just "on" all the time. I do worry that part of current Barbara's character traits could result in something similar for her though.

[I'm a Fish]

What I love about Cheetah as part of the Evil Trinity is that she is easily the most powerful member. Sure, Luthor in his suit can be a heavy hitter, but in terms of brute force Cheetah has him beat (and obviously Joker too).

Yeah, whenever there’s a really powerful female superhero in the room it always has to be debated if she’s the strongest one (that’s a comic-book troupe in general though, I suppose). I think the X-Men are the exception to this (Jean and Storm, obviously), but with in the Justice League anyone sharing the room with Superman is going to get compared to him. Same over at the Avengers with Thor and Hulk competing for top spot. (The MCU is different because they are actually pushing Wanda into that spot, but comic-book wise Wanda has had terrible luck ever since M-day.)

With Cheetah sitting next to Lex and Joker, there is no debate. You’d have to stick Lex in a suit for him to even stand a chance and even then it was build to fight Superman, not someone who can slash through kryptonian skin like paper. Plus, intellectually she’s no slouch either.

Absolutely. She's been scarier than the Joker since Rebirth, precisely because its a mixture of unsettling tragedy of her situation, the uncanny valley of her design and the fact that there is the foundation for a trajectory for her to become more and more monstrous despite sympathetic beginnings.

The modern Joker isn't scary because he no longer has anything else mixed in with it like he used to and she currently at least has the potential for. He's just "scary crazy guy with body count." The Joker was much more effective when he was genuinely funny and could be disarming, so his more lethal moments would be rare and come as a shock. He has no scary mood swings anymore, he's just "on" all the time. I do worry that part of current Barbara's character traits could result in something similar for her though.

They tried hard to make Joker scarier in New52 with him wearing his own face, but that was clearly taking it to far. His instability is what makes him scary. Even the Harley Quinn show gets that right, even if he’s way more over-the-top with how often he kills. It can be harder to translate that into a comic than a movie or cartoon (since there’s no tone of voice) but plenty of stories have done it just fine.

But yes, I think doubling down on the deformed aspects of Cheetahs character design has helped her tremendously. She doesn’t look like a lady in body paint and a tail anymore. And I haven’t seen any terrible jobbing since. Like the jobbing is still there but she’s not getting K.O. by random street level characters anymore.

What I liked about Sharp’s drawing as well is her face would change from panel-to-panel and become more cat-like when she got angry. It just gave off this unnerving impression that her bone structure was constantly changing and that she was always experiencing some form of agony.

[Robanker]

Yeah, whenever there’s a really powerful female superhero in the room it always has to be debated if she’s the strongest one (that’s a comic-book troupe in general though, I suppose). I think the X-Men are the exception to this (Jean and Storm, obviously), but with in the Justice League anyone sharing the room with Superman is going to get compared to him. Same over at the Avengers with Thor and Hulk competing for top spot. (The MCU is different because they are actually pushing Wanda into that spot, but comic-book wise Wanda has had terrible luck ever since M-day.)

With Cheetah sitting next to Lex and Joker, there is no debate. You’d have to stick Lex in a suit for him to even stand a chance and even then it was build to fight Superman, not someone who can slash through kryptonian skin like paper. Plus, intellectually she’s no slouch either.



They tried hard to make Joker scarier in New52 with him wearing his own face, but that was clearly taking it to far. His instability is what makes him scary. Even the Harley Quinn show gets that right, even if he’s way more over-the-top with how often he kills. It can be harder to translate that into a comic than a movie or cartoon (since there’s no tone of voice) but plenty of stories have done it just fine.

But yes, I think doubling down on the deformed aspects of Cheetahs character design has helped her tremendously. She doesn’t look like a lady in body paint and a tail anymore. And I haven’t seen any terrible jobbing since. Like the jobbing is still there but she’s not getting K.O. by random street level characters anymore.

What I liked about Sharp’s drawing as well is her face would change from panel-to-panel and become more cat-like when she got angry. It just gave off this unnerving impression that her bone structure was constantly changing and that she was always experiencing some form of agony.

I'd argue Morrison's work on The Joker getting that brain damage where he could never stop smiling was the start of that situation. All Snyder did was take it to the logical extreme of trying way too hard and making the character come across more pathetic than intimidating.

Cheetah, on the other hand, is the muscle car in the garage under the tarp that's ready to rip up the highway... You just need the keys which your parents keep refusing to give you.

[Agent Z]

Make the lasso transform into a sword and shield. Now you've got the perfect compromise.

[I'm a Fish]

I'd argue Morrison's work on The Joker getting that brain damage where he could never stop smiling was the start of that situation. All Snyder did was take it to the logical extreme of trying way too hard and making the character come across more pathetic than intimidating.

Cheetah, on the other hand, is the muscle car in the garage under the tarp that's ready to rip up the highway... You just need the keys which your parents keep refusing to give you.

Oh yeah, I forgot they went full throttle with Joker’s “notice me Senpai”. Cutting an wearing your own face does sound desperate, lol.

Cheetah epower-wise is basically the Flash with super strength and razor blades for fingers, who is also a nasty cannibal on top of that.
Oh, the potential.

There was that one issue in Rucka’s first run when Diana was in court and Cheetah snuck in, killed and ate a bunch of people just to get to Diana so she could drink her blood.
I fell like that disturbing premise was offset by the art, but again, the potential is there.

Edit: I mean Rebirth had Cheetah go from this:


To this:

[I'm a Fish]

Make the lasso transform into a sword and shield. Now you've got the perfect compromise.

Doesn’t the truth hurt enough without it actually being pointy?

[Gaius]

They tried hard to make Joker scarier in New52 with him wearing his own face, but that was clearly taking it to far. His instability is what makes him scary. Even the Harley Quinn show gets that right, even if he’s way more over-the-top with how often he kills. It can be harder to translate that into a comic than a movie or cartoon (since there’s no tone of voice) but plenty of stories have done it just fine.

But yes, I think doubling down on the deformed aspects of Cheetahs character design has helped her tremendously. She doesn’t look like a lady in body paint and a tail anymore. And I haven’t seen any terrible jobbing since. Like the jobbing is still there but she’s not getting K.O. by random street level characters anymore.

What I liked about Sharp’s drawing as well is her face would change from panel-to-panel and become more cat-like when she got angry. It just gave off this unnerving impression that her bone structure was constantly changing and that she was always experiencing some form of agony.

Joker's a character imo, at least modern days, whose done better when there's an actor giving a performance (whether VA or live-action). Helps at least even in the stuff that's otherwise pretty serious like the Nolan films, they actually give him moments to be funny.

Oh yeah, I forgot they went full throttle with Joker’s “notice me Senpai”. Cutting an wearing your own face does sound desperate, lol.

Cheetah epower-wise is basically the Flash with super strength and razor blades for fingers, who is also a nasty cannibal on top of that.
Oh, the potential.

There was that one issue in Rucka’s first run when Diana was in court and Cheetah snuck in, killed and ate a bunch of people just to get to Diana so she could drink her blood.
I fell like that disturbing premise was offset by the art, but again, the potential is there.

Edit: I mean Rebirth had Cheetah go from this:


To this:

These two pages really sum up how Rucka's Cheetah in his two runs were night and day.

[John Venus]

These two pages really sum up how Rucka's Cheetah in his two runs were night and day.

His Cheetah was better in the second run but is still the weakest compared to previous iterations of Barbara Minerva:



Now that is the Cheetah I can believe is Diana's archenemy and can sit at the same table as Lex Luthor and the Joker. Rucka's version would be mocked and manipulated by Lex and Joker.

[Agent Z]

I like Perez's Minerva but I care more about if Cheetah is written in an interesting way than if she can sit at the table with Luthor and Joker. Then again, I think the Wonder Woman characters more often than not suffer the more they interact with the wider DC universe.