Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Alpha]

*snaps fingers* well, darn. *goes back to reading current WW run*

He was talking about Comicsgate I think.

[I'm a Fish]

He was talking about Comicsgate I think.

Oh, lol.

(The conversation was suddenly heading towards the direction of female Wonder Woman writers being sexist or something? I assumed the comment was a sarcastic remark on that. )

[WonderLight789]

Oh, lol.

(The conversation was suddenly heading towards the direction of female Wonder Woman writers being sexist or something? I assumed the comment was a sarcastic remark on that. )

Why sarcastic? Women can be sexist without them knowing. We should compare how women writers have handled male characters compared to what they did with WW. Then we would have more info to know if they were letting sexism blind them without them knowing.

[I'm a Fish]

Why sarcastic? Women can be sexist without them knowing. We should compare how women writers have handled male characters compared to what they did with WW. Then we would have more info to know if they were letting sexism blind them without them knowing.

I meant I though what Robanker was sarcastic because I misunderstood his message.


And no, I am not going to do some "deep dive" into these women's work to force some discovery about whether they are sexist or not. The search itself feels hypocritical to me because it implies a witch-hunt style of search aimed at female writers to uncover if they are sexist towards women, since Wonder Woman is the centerpiece character is all of this.

And I am definitely not on board with this...weird gaslighting subtext that female writers are sexist towards women without knowing it, just because some people don't like their Wonder Woman run.

[Robanker]

*snaps fingers* well, darn. *goes back to reading current WW run*

Oh I meant comicsgate. They're awful people. I have no issue with the creators on the current run, they all seem like decent folk.

I can see why you may think I was being sarcastic given my posting history of half sincere and half snarky. Wish I could take credit for that one but I wasn't that clever at the time.

I meant I though what Robanker was sarcastic because I misunderstood his message.


And no, I am not going to do some "deep dive" into these women's work to force some discovery about whether they are sexist or not. The search itself feels hypocritical to me because it implies a witch-hunt style of search aimed at female writers to uncover if they are sexist towards women, since Wonder Woman is the centerpiece character is all of this.

And I am definitely not on board with this...weird gaslighting subtext that female writers are sexist towards women without knowing it, just because some people don't like their Wonder Woman run.

This. I wouldn't call Morrison a sexist by any stretch but they've yet to do anything with Diana I think she deserves and I do feel Final Crisis is borderline sexist towards women (been too long since I've read it conclusively state that) but sometimes execution poorly illustrates someone's vision. I sincerely doubt the women writing Diana were sexist by any metric. If anything, they may have been edited heavily or simply had a different view on strength or respect than the reader.

The notion that Simone, for example, is sexist towards women (or at all, really) is just outrageous.

[I'm a Fish]

This. I wouldn't call Morrison a sexist by any stretch but they've yet to do anything with Diana I think she deserves and I do feel Final Crisis is borderline sexist towards women (been too long since I've read it conclusively state that) but sometimes execution poorly illustrates someone's vision. I sincerely doubt the women writing Diana were sexist by any metric. If anything, they may have been edited heavily or simply had a different view on strength or respect than the reader.

The notion that Simone, for example, is sexist towards women (or at all, really) is just outrageous.

Yeah really, she pointed out sexism in comics back in the 90's with her blog.

I also don't think Willison or Tamaki have ever written an ongoing male lead superhero comic, or even a male lead comic in general... (I might be wrong though).

Edit: Also Marrison has depowered Superman in the past, is that sexist? I don't know what we are judging as sexist here. Which is why I encourage that if others wish to continue this conversation they should create a new thread for it.

[WonderLight789]

Oh I meant comicsgate. They're awful people. I have no issue with the creators on the current run, they all seem like decent folk.

I can see why you may think I was being sarcastic given my posting history of half sincere and half shitposting. Wish I could take credit for that one but I wasn't that clever at the time.



This. I wouldn't call Morrison a sexist by any stretch but they've yet to do anything with Diana I think she deserves and I do feel Final Crisis is borderline sexist towards women (been too long since I've read it conclusively state that) but sometimes execution poorly illustrates someone's vision. I sincerely doubt the women writing Diana were sexist by any metric. If anything, they may have been edited heavily or simply had a different view on strength or respect than the reader.

The notion that Simone, for example, is sexist towards women (or at all, really) is just outrageous.

I never said all female writers. And i said nothing about Simone.

[Robanker]

Yeah really, she pointed out sexism in comics back in the 90's with her blog.

I also don't think Willison or Tamaki have ever written an ongoing male lead superhero comic, or even a male lead comic in general... (I might be wrong though).

Edit: Also Marrison has depowered Superman in the past, is that sexist? I don't know what we are judging as sexist here. Which is why I encourage that if others wish to continue this conversation they should create a new thread for it.

Tamaki is currently writing Batman in Detective Comics, for what it's worth. I'm very behind right now but I'm pulling that book for Dan Mora (seriously, all of you go read Once & Future) and Huntress. Hopefully I'll dig it when I'm caught up.

[Robanker]

I never said all female writers. And i said nothing about Simone.

You referred to female Wonder Woman writers and she is one. Certainly one of, if not the first, to get a long run on the character.

Her Diana was not to be messed with. She punched Power Girl across state lines.

[WonderLight789]

You referred to female Wonder Woman writers and she is one. Certainly one of, if not the first, to get a long run on the character.

Her Diana was not to be messed with. She punched Power Girl across state lines.

I said female writers. Not all female writers. Simone is not among the ones that i consider incapable writing WW properly. She did good specially with so much editors getting in her way during her run. She did the best she could while working under such context. Other female writers may have faced this too, but they did not show the same level of care and interest in trying the best they could do.

[SiegePerilous02]

Of the prominent female writers on WW, we've had Simone of course and Murchison as the OG female writer. Other than that, the only significant female writers of note on this title (which is pretty bad when you think about it, that we've had so few) we've had Mindy Newell working with Perez, Meredith Finch, Jodi Picoult and G. Willow Wilson. Even if the latter three turned in sucky work, I don't think we need to attribute it to some internalized sexism. At least with Picoult and Wilson, that doesn't seem fair when looking at their entire body of work. It's just not a character (maybe even a genre?) that generally suits them.

I don't think we have anything to worry about with DeConnick either, as far as the Amazons go.

[Alpha]

I said female writers. Not all female writers. Simone is not among the ones that i consider incapable writing WW properly. She did good specially with so much editors getting in her way during her run. She did the best she could while working under such context. Other female writers may have faced this too, but they did not show the same level of care and interest in trying the best they could do.

I totally disagree with your assessment, but it's good to see you talk about the Wonder Woman stories you did like. I still don't think it's very interesting to define Diana's strength by what heroes she is able to defeat.

[WonderLight789]

I totally disagree with your assessment, but it's good to see you talk about the Wonder Woman stories you did like. I still don't think it's very interesting to define Diana's strength by what heroes she is able to defeat.

Not other heroes. Diana's physical strength should be defined by actually having feats of great strength. That she doesn't get anymore. Since she doesn't do anything impressive with her so called Godly strength. And her own villains(the gods and avatars Diana faces) do not show amazing strength either in the battles against her.

[marhawkman]

Edit: Also Marrison has depowered Superman in the past, is that sexist? I don't know what we are judging as sexist here. Which is why I encourage that if others wish to continue this conversation they should create a new thread for it.

Yeah, not really seeing reasons to consider it sexism. Some of it comes off as "I don't like the way this writer wrote something"... as the reason to call it sexist, which.... is dumb.

[Nyssane]

Of the prominent female writers on WW, we've had Simone of course and Murchison as the OG female writer. Other than that, the only significant female writers of note on this title (which is pretty bad when you think about it, that we've had so few) we've had Mindy Newell working with Perez, Meredith Finch, Jodi Picoult and G. Willow Wilson. Even if the latter three turned in sucky work, I don't think we need to attribute it to some internalized sexism. At least with Picoult and Wilson, that doesn't seem fair when looking at their entire body of work. It's just not a character (maybe even a genre?) that generally suits them.

I don't think we have anything to worry about with DeConnick either, as far as the Amazons go.

Cloonan already made it to the top of the list of female WW writers for me, joining Murchison and De Liz.