Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Alpha]

*cough* DcConnick *cough cough*

I need to point out two things. First of all, I'm really excited for Historia, but I don't think Deconnick would write the main WW book until Historia is finished.

Second, I don't know if we can call Deconnick a star writer at DC. After all, Aquaman got cancelled due to how low her sales got. I heard some really interesting things about her run, but it still doesn't change the fact that her sales just aren't there at the moment.

Has King written anything outside of Batman that was a huge seller?

Rorscharch and Strange Adventures are selling better than Wonder Woman. In fact, Rorschach is the best selling DC book outside the batfamily. Of course the Watchmen IP is helping a lot in that sense, but Strange Adventures is proof that he can do the same thing with a d list character.

And as far as him making Diana a seductress, I agree that the last thing I want is a romance between Bruce and Diana, and I'm certain that King wouldn't go there since he invested so much into Batman/ Catwoman. That one Batman story he wrote was all about the two of them not working out, and ignoring the romance, he actually wrote a really fun version of Diana.

[John Venus]

The Amazons weren't highly advanced in the Perez run and Aphrodite was reduced to an extra there, but otherwise I agree with John Venus's assessment. And even so, Rucka's first run did build off the foundation of Perez, so we got tech for the Amazons a bit more of a role for Aphrodite.

Not talking about the tech. But the depiction of the mythological elements like the Gods.

[John Venus]

Has King written anything outside of Batman that was a huge seller?

His mini series has gotten a fair bit of attention and sales. Omega Men, Mr Miracle, Strange Tales. That's why DC keeps giving him more.

I have not found Wonder Woman to be very interesting but I've only read the Contest and the Legend of Wonder Woman. In the Legend of Wonder Woman she was very introverted which is fine but not what I was expecting.

The current run is really good. Start at #775. It features an adventurous Diana travelling between different realms. All you need to know is that Diana 'died' but ended up in Valhalla. If you need to know anything more, Infinite Frontier #0 should be enough.

If you want more classic WW stories then Senstational Comics is a good start.

[I'm a Fish]

I need to point out two things. First of all, I'm really excited for Historia, but I don't think Deconnick would write the main WW book until Historia is finished.

Second, I don't know if we can call Deconnick a star writer at DC. After all, Aquaman got cancelled due to how low her sales got. I heard some really interesting things about her run, but it still doesn't change the fact that her sales just aren't there at the moment.

I don’t expect DcConnick to write WW anytime soon. Maybe after this team finishes up if they are able to stay on for a couple of years.

It’s not always the writer, it’s not always the project, sometimes it’s which project and which writer the project is attached too. DeConnick on WW would for-sure make headlines and get fan attention.

[Alpha]

I have not found Wonder Woman to be very interesting but I've only read the Contest and the Legend of Wonder Woman. In the Legend of Wonder Woman she was very introverted which is fine but not what I was expecting.

If you want a single issue that will make you love her just pick up "DC retroactive: Wonder Woman - the 90s". It has a story from the 90s and one from 2011 before the reboot, and it shows what makes Diana so infectuous.

[SiegePerilous02]

Not talking about the tech. But the depiction of the mythological elements like the Gods.

Sorry I may have misunderstood, when you said they Amazons were a peaceful and highly advanced society I thought you meant the tech for the latter part.

[phonogram12]

I don't see why texture has to mean turning them into rapists and slavers.

Diana is supposed to represent the best of the Amazons.

Look at how Coogler handled Wakanda and T'Challa. He showed the flaws in Wakanda's isolationist policy but he also celebrated the culture and the idea of an uncolonized society and upheld the aspirational quality of it's mythology.

True, but Coogler also treated Wakandans like real people. Putting Azzarello's depiction aside, I can't remember the last time the Amazons were treated as real people. Even the movie barely managed this (and I'm a HUGE fan of the first movie). Maybe the tv show?

Meanwhile, folks in charge of adapting Wonder Woman and even in comics act like the Amazons and Themyscira act like the Amazons are dead weight and couldn't wait to separate her from her culture or treat it like something she should get away from or rebel against.

With the exception of the tv version of them, I'm okay with that, tbh. I understand that others aren't, though.

[I'm a Fish]

True, but Coogler also treated Wakandans like real people. Putting Azzarello's depiction aside, I can't remember the last time the Amazons were treated as real people. Even the movie barely managed this (and I'm a HUGE fan of the first movie). Maybe the tv show?.

I think they're rather human in the current back-up's.

[phonogram12]

I think they're rather human in the current back-up's.

Admittedly, I've only dipped in and out of WW's title since Azzarello's run, so I'll have to take your word for it.

[I'm a Fish]

Admittedly, I've only dipped in and out of WW's title since Azzarello's run, so I'll have to take your word for it.

Turns out Hippolyta is a big ol' liar! But what else is new.

[phonogram12]

Turns out Hippolyta is a big ol' liar! But what else is new.

Hahahaha

I don't even know what this is in reference to, but this gif is hilarious!

[Agent Z]

True, but Coogler also treated Wakandans like real people. Putting Azzarello's depiction aside, I can't remember the last time the Amazons were treated as real people. Even the movie barely managed this (and I'm a HUGE fan of the first movie). Maybe the tv show?



With the exception of the tv version of them, I'm okay with that, tbh. I understand that others aren't, though.

Azzarello's versions aren't people. They're caricatures. Other writers have done a far better job of writing the Amazons as human beings without glorifying or demonizing them.

[Agent Z]

I find it funny that the sword gets criticized for being a shallow way to appeal to male audiences given the type of stuff that has been featured in Wonder Woman since the very beginning for the purpose of appealing to male audiences.





The sword is not the first attempt at appealing to males nor is it even close to most offensive.

[SiegePerilous02]

The sword is not the first attempt at appealing to males nor is it even close to most offensive.

In the case of the bondage, the more explicit bondage elements (involving the lasso or not) really stopped being a thing long before the sword got more regular usage. It's not that using the sword automatically leads to more aggressive characterization for Diana, as good writers can still write her well with one, but it does increase the likelihood. And the better writers like Jimenez, Simone or Rucka usually avoid putting the sword in her hand too much and focus more on the lasso, without the bondage elements.

Basically, the above examples don't also make the sword less stupid than it is 90% of the time. When we have Diana depicted as wielding a sword against Vanessa's Silver Swan (a brainwashed and abused teenager), it doesn't come across that well. Someone of her power level and ability also generally doesn't need one most of the time, with enemies like Doomsday or mythological monsters being acceptable cases that should be rare.

[Gaius]

I find it funny that the sword gets criticized for being a shallow way to appeal to male audiences given the type of stuff that has been featured in Wonder Woman since the very beginning for the purpose of appealing to male audiences.

The sword is not the first attempt at appealing to males nor is it even close to most offensive.

Though like Siege said the explicit bondage elements, outside Morrison's Earth One books and an occasional joke, haven't really been a factor in modern WW (or pretty much since Marston died). So I think it's more like the sword being more a prevalent thing in modern WW depictions and images that DC likes to promote. Even stuff that revisits Golden Age era Wonder Woman like LoWW doesn't really have much in the way of bondage stuff (which for the record, I do prefer over the EO series).

And while I don't like to go with a "Appeal to the Original Creator" argument, I suppose that is a reason some give it a pass since the bondage stuff was a founding part of Marston's creation of her.