Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[SiegePerilous02]

I'm not sure what this argument is, but the key difference is that Ares is traditionally a villain in the Wonderverse and Athena isn't.

That should really be the long and short of it, but we can also expand it to the fact that the ancient Greeks venerated Athena much more than Ares because he was just mindless bloodshed while she covered his area without the drawbacks. She even valued men over women, so it wasn't really even a "women = good, men = bad" thing with her. He was just kind of a useless idiot compared to her.

Even the myths that depict Athena as being more spiteful and villainous (the versions that have Medusa be a rape victim instead of complicit or Athena simply being jealous of Arachnae without any arrogance on the latter's part) come from the Romans because their culture venerated Ares/Mars and didn't have as much use for Athena/Minerva, so she was less likeable in their versions. By Greek god standards, Athena was generally depicted as being more reasonable than many of the others.

[Nyssane]

I didn't know that Romans brought those myths to Athena! Very interesting.

[I'm a Fish]

I didn't know that Romans brought those myths to Athena! Very interesting.

Yeah she had no part in making Medusa in the Greek version, Medusa was just born a gorgon IIRC. And Athena knew how feared she was so she wore armor with her face on it to intimidate people.

The Greeks still had Arachne, though. (Although the most well known version of that story is told my a Roman poet so...)

[SiegePerilous02]

I didn't know that Romans brought those myths to Athena! Very interesting.

Yeah she had no part in making Medusa in the Greek version, Medusa was just born a gorgon IIRC. And Athena knew how feared she was so she wore armor with her face on it to intimidate people.

The Greeks still had Arachne, though. (Although the most well known version of that story is told my a Roman poet so...)

Yeah, Medusa and her sisters were originally born monstrous, and Poseidon lay with Medusa to produce Pegasus and their other kid. I think there is a middle version where Medusa is mortal and has a consensual affair with Poseidon in Athena's temple, which makes Athena's punishment a little more understandable. The rape interpretation came from Ovid, who sensationalized the drama of it and made Athena/Minerva spiteful to fit the Romans' general view of her, came later. Neither the second or third version really account for Stheno and Euryale.

With Arachnae, the original Greek telling had them get into a weaving contest and it was Arachnae depicting the Gods poorly in her piece that angered Athena. Arachnae wasn't humble about her talent and actively antagonized the goddess to her face, so it's a "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" scenario. I think there is a Roman version where Minerva is just jealous at her talent and trashes her pieces, and Arachnae commits suicide by hanging. And then Minerva takes pity and turns her into a spider. Or the hanging doesn't happen and Minerva just turns her into a spider immediately. Either way, Arachnae doesn't brag or act insulting like she did in the Greek version.

[John Venus]

I heard variations that Athena did it not just humble Arachne but to protect her from the wrath of Posiedon and Zeus who wouldn't have taken kindly to being mocked either. One of the reasons why I like the fact that Athena took Zeus place in Rucka's run is because even in the myth, Athena came off as a double agent.

Either way, all the bad press Athena gets is due to Ovid who is like the ancient Rome equivalent of J Jonah Jameson. "That Athena is a menace!"

[TheRay]

If it has to be there at all, then I'd like to see Hippolyta's affair with Zeus mentioned more.

[Alpha]

If it has to be there at all, then I'd like to see Hera's affair with Zeus mentioned more.

What do you mean? They are married. It's not an affair.

[marhawkman]

I heard variations that Athena did it not just humble Arachne but to protect her from the wrath of Posiedon and Zeus who wouldn't have taken kindly to being mocked either. One of the reasons why I like the fact that Athena took Zeus place in Rucka's run is because even in the myth, Athena came off as a double agent.

Either way, all the bad press Athena gets is due to Ovid who is like the ancient Rome equivalent of J Jonah Jameson. "That Athena is a menace!"

Well as one person put it(heavily paraphrased): some ancient sources venerated certain deities and reviled others. This resulted in the same story being told but with a different character cast as the bad guy.

It's like with the Amazons on Paradise island. Certain deities are their patrons and those deities they show greater respect to than others. Applying this to real-world ancient chronicles of the exploits of the gods: chronicles written by people who sought to praise a deity had a different take on everything compared to those that didn't. Thus those who revered Athena treated her differently when telling stories about her than those who didn't.

[AmiMizuno]

One thing I wish Wonder Woman explored was Steve's religion like what goddess does he belong too. Also how does he feel about his mom dying on the island. If we go by Perez's origin it would be a little interesting if he knew. Like Hippolyta keeps track of many of the women and boys who were lost children that washed on the island

[John Venus]

I like to think of Steve as lapsed Catholic and later agnostic. Steve needs to be a grounded realist to contrast with Diana's idealist outlook.

I like the idea of Steve's mother being a pilot and possibly inspiring him but not sure about her also crash landing in Paradise Island and inspiring Diana's name. Though I don't mind her and Diana having a similar name since that could be something that gives both WW and Steve common ground when they meet.

[BiteTheBullet]

What do you mean? They are married. It's not an affair.

Reading your response, while technically correct, but I assume you know what he meant. His dalliances with other women outside of Hera, in case you didn't.

[AmiMizuno]

I'm curious I know we have all been back and forth but how do you guys feel about amazons having kids? I like the idea Perez has maybe some amazons adopted the children or maybe some spirits are reborn on the Island like how the Amazons were. Like the Amazons pray and if they are lucky they have a baby.


I mean in ancient times there were baby girls who were abandoned and even now. What if each amazon tribe could get those children to be reborn. I'm not just saying on Paradise Island but also the other tribes has well.

[Alpha]

I see Paradise Island as a sort of afterlife, a place for the gay women that have fought for their happiness and been punished by mankind. A place where they can finally drop their swords and rest, and over time build themselves back up in a new way. Thus, I would have women arrive there over the millenia. There's a recent amazon called Sofia Constantinas that arrived on the island about 5 years before Diana left, and Sofia was the first person Diana fell in love with (this is how we can show Diana's romances in Paradise Island without weird age issues).

[Ascended]

I'm curious I know we have all been back and forth but how do you guys feel about amazons having kids?

Still against it. For lots of reasons; some thematic, some logistical.

[Gaius]

I'm curious I know we have all been back and forth but how do you guys feel about amazons having kids? I like the idea Perez has maybe some amazons adopted the children or maybe some spirits are reborn on the Island like how the Amazons were. Like the Amazons pray and if they are lucky they have a baby.


I mean in ancient times there were baby girls who were abandoned and even now. What if each amazon tribe could get those children to be reborn. I'm not just saying on Paradise Island but also the other tribes has well.

I'm generally in the camp of Diana's the only kid on the island. Though it's not a story breaker for me if there are other kids like what LoWW did.