Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[TheRay]

The most interesting part of their interactions is how different the three of them are.

[Agent Z]

No, but we get idiocy like "I don't have any villains because I take care of them" and blowing up part of a building in the Snyder Cut to kill one powerless dude.

It's a case of "pick your poison," but it's not like Superman's no-kill code forces writers to write bad stuff like Action #775 any more than Perez's take forced the later stuff. But it's actually resulted in good/great stuff like "Miracle Monday," and having impact for the end of "Whatever Happened to...?". Whereas Wonder Woman being willing to kill has rarely resulted in anything that good and it's opened her up to VERY bad takes.

Again, if it is just about avoiding bad takes on the character, you're going to need to do a lot more than getting rid of the no-killing rule. DCAU, Spirit of Truth and 1984 also had crappy takes on Diana, and she doesn't kill anyone in those settings. That line by Johns isn't even consistent since she doesn't kill Cheetah under his pen and I'll stand by people greatly blowing (no pun intended) that scene in the Snyder Cut out of proportion and ignoring everything else about Diana there.

This is basically looking at the symptom and not the disease.

[HestiasHearth]

Again, if it is just about avoiding bad takes on the character, you're going to need to do a lot more than getting rid of the no-killing rule. DCAU and 1984 also had crappy takes on Diana, and she doesn't kill anyone in those settings. That idiotic line by Johns isn't even consistent since she doesn't kill Cheetah under his pen and I'll stand by people greatly blowing (no pun intended) that scene in the Snyder Cut out of proportion and ignoring everything else about Diana there just to look for something to complain about.

That whole bank scene was genuinely horrid and out of character for Diana. But yeah, they were not the only horrid part of WW84.

[marhawkman]

This?

Never played the Arkham games but guess this why you don't make the Batmobile a playable feature, lol.

Well....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbRmdBiz1LM
There's more than one of those scenes....
But this is pretty true to the comics though :/

[marhawkman]

Again, if it is just about avoiding bad takes on the character, you're going to need to do a lot more than getting rid of the no-killing rule. DCAU, Spirit of Truth and 1984 also had crappy takes on Diana, and she doesn't kill anyone in those settings. That line by Johns isn't even consistent since she doesn't kill Cheetah under his pen and I'll stand by people greatly blowing (no pun intended) that scene in the Snyder Cut out of proportion and ignoring everything else about Diana there.

This is basically looking at the symptom and not the disease.

The real problem with the no-killing rule is that it exists as editorial fiat for out-of-universe reasons. Thus it exists to BE flanderized beyond all logic and reason, to the point of infecting others.

[TheRay]

Morrison and Rucka would be a great WW team.

[SiegePerilous02]

Again, if it is just about avoiding bad takes on the character, you're going to need to do a lot more than getting rid of the no-killing rule. DCAU, Spirit of Truth and 1984 also had crappy takes on Diana, and she doesn't kill anyone in those settings. That line by Johns isn't even consistent since she doesn't kill Cheetah under his pen and I'll stand by people greatly blowing (no pun intended) that scene in the Snyder Cut out of proportion and ignoring everything else about Diana there.

This is basically looking at the symptom and not the disease.

Then those other pieces of media having crappy takes on Diana should have those issues addressed. It shouldn't be assumed that just because someone dislikes her killing then they also like the DCAU or the sketchier parts of WW84 (and her not killing anybody in that is hardly a flaw- it's probably one of the few basic things the film did right).

People blow the museum scene out of proportion because others come at by saying it's how she should be all the time. And also because it's the most single noteworthy thing she does in that entire movie. Otherwise she just has some generic fight scenes against an opponent she really shouldn't be having so much trouble against, and then Superman just breezes in an takes care of it anyway.

Authors who write Diana as being willing to kill might not also write the museum scene the way it was. Rucka writes a Diana who is willing to cross that line if it comes to it. But he presented pretty much the exact same scenario in Year One where she is a rookie who gets her powers in that exact scene, and she doesn't kill a single person. Because Rucka has a better grasp on her than what Snyder has shown.

Morrison and Rucka would be a great WW team.

I don't think they'd ever see eye to eye on the mythos, but if they were ever to manage it I'd be thrilled to give this a shot. They'd probably balance each other out. It may be the ideal Marston/Perez fusion that nobody has ever managed to give (though Jimenez came close).

[Gaius]

Then those other pieces of media having crappy takes on Diana should have those issues addressed. It shouldn't be assumed that just because someone dislikes her killing then they also like the DCAU or the sketchier parts of WW84 (and her not killing anybody in that is hardly a flaw- it's probably one of the few basic things the film did right).

People blow the museum scene out of proportion because others come at by saying it's how she should be all the time. And also because it's the most single noteworthy thing she does in that entire movie. Otherwise she just has some generic fight scenes against an opponent she really shouldn't be having so much trouble against, and then Superman just breezes in an takes care of it anyway.

Authors who write Diana as being willing to kill might not also write the museum scene the way it was. Rucka writes a Diana who is willing to cross that line if it comes to it. But he presented pretty much the exact same scenario in Year One where she is a rookie who gets her powers in that exact scene, and she doesn't kill a single person. Because Rucka has a better grasp on her than what Snyder has shown.



I don't think they'd ever see eye to eye on the mythos, but if they were ever to manage it I'd be thrilled to give this a shot. They'd probably balance each other out. It may be the ideal Marston/Perez fusion that nobody has ever managed to give (though Jimenez came close).

Rucka and Jimenez both on a WW project is the dream project I'm sadly never going to get.

[Agent Z]

Then those other pieces of media having crappy takes on Diana should have those issues addressed. It shouldn't be assumed that just because someone dislikes her killing then they also like the DCAU or the sketchier parts of WW84 (and her not killing anybody in that is hardly a flaw- it's probably one of the few basic things the film did right).

People blow the museum scene out of proportion because others come at by saying it's how she should be all the time. And also because it's the most single noteworthy thing she does in that entire movie. Otherwise she just has some generic fight scenes against an opponent she really shouldn't be having so much trouble against, and then Superman just breezes in an takes care of it anyway.

Authors who write Diana as being willing to kill might not also write the museum scene the way it was. Rucka writes a Diana who is willing to cross that line if it comes to it. But he presented pretty much the exact same scenario in Year One where she is a rookie who gets her powers in that exact scene, and she doesn't kill a single person. Because Rucka has a better grasp on her than what Snyder has shown.



I don't think they'd ever see eye to eye on the mythos, but if they were ever to manage it I'd be thrilled to give this a shot. They'd probably balance each other out. It may be the ideal Marston/Perez fusion that nobody has ever managed to give (though Jimenez came close).

Who is saying the museum thing is how she should be all the time? I see more people complaining about people saying this vs anyone actually saying such. Even then, two extremes don't make a right. Saying the museum action is how Diana should be written doesn't make demonizing her (or Snyder) for it any better. It's just another case of people overreacting to DC heroes killing while anything else gets a pass in comparison. Even on this board, people have defended the problems with the DCAU and 1984 takes, with one commenter in particular saying that fans have to be grateful for the latter, and that it's a more "true" take on her than the previous film.

Steppenwolf is a New God. And Diana does far better against him in the Snyder version than the Whedon version. Superman doesn't even do that much to beat him.

[SiegePerilous02]

Who is saying the museum thing is how she should be all the time? I see more people complaining about people saying this vs anyone actually saying such. Even then, two extremes don't make a right. Saying the museum action is how Diana should be written doesn't make demonizing her (or Snyder) for it any better. It's just another case of people overreacting to DC heroes killing while anything else gets a pass in comparison. Even on this board, people have defended the problems with the DCAU and 1984 takes, with one commenter in particular saying that fans have to be grateful for the latter, and that it's a more "true" take on her than the previous film.

Steppenwolf is a New God. And Diana does far better against him in the Snyder version than the Whedon version. Superman doesn't even do that much to beat him.

All the people tweeting #SlayQueen and saying it was better action than WW84 specifically because it was more "badass." It certainly was more thrilling action, but the take away for a lot of people was that it was cool WW blew a guy up and smashed a bunch of others into walls, not just that her choreography was better.

Maybe the people who dislike DC heroes killing are specifically concerned with how DC characters are depicted because they are fans of them? Maybe some fans don't give a crap what Marvel is doing with their characters either way? That's why some give Marvel a pass, they just don't care. And it's not like it's going to be every DC character killing ever. There were no complaints about the Suicide Squad characters killing because that's just who those characters are. Superman and Wonder Woman are not them, and if the decision is to have them kill, it might be nice to be less casual about it.

Steppenwolf is a fairly minor New God who was originally killed off off-panel in Kirby's backstory. And what do you mean Superman doesn't do much to beat him? He pounds him into the ground, heat visions his horn off, casually freezes and breaks the axe that had given WW so much trouble all movie, etc. If he can solo Steppenwolf, so should Diana. With perhaps only slightly more difficulty at best.

[WonderLight789]

Cheetah is not respected within DC at all. And until Diana's foe get more respect. We can't have a more meaningful presence of the Wonder lore in the DCU at large. We still haven't seen much interest from DC editors to give her villains love and respect. But the saddest part is. Many WW writers are the main issue. They don't seem to have faith in characters like Cheetah, and they help to perpetuate the idea she isn't that strong. Pattyu Jenkins, gww, geoff johns, bruce timm, tom taylor etc. Most writers that handle WW anbd her characters, don't seem to think highly of Cheetah. And that sucks. Why cxouldn't they put effort into a character that is supposed to be powered up by a God?

[Gaius]

It's been about a year or so and having read her FS and at least 4 issues of her solo, so I think it's safe to say Yara's been a boring dud of a character so far.

Who is saying the museum thing is how she should be all the time? I see more people complaining about people saying this vs anyone actually saying such. Even then, two extremes don't make a right. Saying the museum action is how Diana should be written doesn't make demonizing her (or Snyder) for it any better. It's just another case of people overreacting to DC heroes killing while anything else gets a pass in comparison. Even on this board, people have defended the problems with the DCAU and 1984 takes, with one commenter in particular saying that fans have to be grateful for the latter, and that it's a more "true" take on her than the previous film.

Steppenwolf is a New God. And Diana does far better against him in the Snyder version than the Whedon version. Superman doesn't even do that much to beat him.

I mean, isn't that the critique? Wonder Woman and the League spend both versions of the movie barely keeping up Steppenwolf but the minute Superman shows and pretty much no-sells everything Stepphenwolf throws at him and makes the rest of the League look like hangers-on.

Though honestly, between Snyder's JL and Chip Zdarsky's recent JL-mini. This year's really solidified my opinion that Perez was 100% in the right and Diana lost nothing of value losing "founder" status among the League if the results we get are the aforementioned drivel.

[phonogram12]

WW is a great character, but her powers and their levels are literally the second least interesting things about her (the first would be the Kapatelis').

[Alpha]

WW is a great character, but her powers and their levels they are literally the second least interesting things about her (the first would be the Kapatelis').

Haha, I agree with everything you said

[Agent Z]

A Wonder Woman show, movie or game should have no characters from outside the Wonder Woman world.