Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[phonogram12]

Yeah. Kane just wanted to be rich and famous and was apparently willingly to cheat his partner to do so. Kinda funny how that guy over at Marvel was willing to do the same thing.

[Robanker]

Yeah. Kane just wanted to be rich and famous and was apparently willingly to cheat his partner to do so. Kinda funny how that guy over at Marvel was willing to do the same thing.

Money talks, talent walks. At least the guy at Marvel was a good storyteller. Kane not so much.

[I'm a Fish]

how do people feel about the bondage in Golden Age Wonder Woman these days?

I'm fine with it being kept to an occasional tongue-in-cheek reference like it mostly is now-a-days.

[Alan2099]

Here's an opinion that everyone will hate me for.

I have no problems at all with Wonder Woman in a thong.

[Robanker]

Here's an opinion that everyone will hate me for.

I have no problems at all with Wonder Woman in a thong.

Who let your inner thirteen year old out?

[phonogram12]

Here's an opinion that everyone will hate me for.

I have no problems at all with Wonder Woman in a thong.

I mean, in terms of problems with WW that ever needed fixing, this was always closer to the middle to the end of the list for me. Don't get me wrong, I did feel it needed fixing, but the character always had bigger issues to deal with than this.

[bardkeep]

Here's another controversial take that's a little less surface-level - I wish people would stop "straight-washing" all things Wonder Woman. The queerness inherent to her and her mythos makes her unique and creators shouldn't fetishize or hypersexualize lesbianism but that doesn't mean all things gay should be totally sanitized. It's a big reason why the demigod thing is so bleh (beyond it just being boring and derivative, which it is). I'm definitely not a purist about her origin - I loved how Legend of Wonder Woman played out and even though it's polarizing among fans I actually dug the Dead Earth origin - but just like how from a feminist perspective it means something that she doesn't draw her power from a man, from a queer perspective it means something that she wasn't born from a hetero relationship. I get that focusing on it too much is isolating to the average reader and I don't expect it to be at the forefront of every story, but as the rare reader who is neither straight nor a man it's cool that there's a powerful, non-niche character with sapphic DNA that isn't incidental or tokenized.

They've definitely made some progress there and I'm glad recent writers are exploring queer relationships/characters more with things like Aphrodite's nonbinary child in G. Willow Wilson's run and the multiple canon Amazon pairings in current continuity (e.g. Philippus and Hippolyta, Nubia and Io), but honestly...someone needs to give Diana a girlfriend already. I know Greg Rucka has been vocal about her bisexuality since his original run and I trust that he pushed for more than we got, but the lip service he paid to her having a girlfriend she left behind on Themyscira in Year One was about as satisfying as the inert flirtationship between her and Io in his original run.

Sidenote, this is beef I have with DCEU Wonder Woman. I like her overall, and I loved the first WW movie and the Diana/Steve pairing in it, but did they have to make her and the movie Amazons, like...Entourage levels of straight? Maybe I'm just still mad about the part of WW84 where she begs Steve to let her give up her powers to be with him and he has to convince her otherwise.

[Alpha]

Agreed 10ch

[Robanker]

Here's another controversial take that's a little less surface-level - I wish people would stop "straight-washing" all things Wonder Woman. The queerness inherent to her and her mythos makes her unique and creators shouldn't fetishize or hypersexualize lesbianism but that doesn't mean all things gay should be totally sanitized. It's a big reason why the demigod thing is so bleh (beyond it just being boring and derivative, which it is). I'm definitely not a purist about her origin - I loved how Legend of Wonder Woman played out and even though it's polarizing among fans I actually dug the Dead Earth origin - but just like how from a feminist perspective it means something that she doesn't draw her power from a man, from a queer perspective it means something that she wasn't born from a hetero relationship. I get that focusing on it too much is isolating to the average reader and I don't expect it to be at the forefront of every story, but as the rare reader who is neither straight nor a man it's cool that there's a powerful, non-niche character with sapphic DNA that isn't incidental or tokenized.

They've definitely made some progress there and I'm glad recent writers are exploring queer relationships/characters more with things like Aphrodite's nonbinary child in G. Willow Wilson's run and the multiple canon Amazon pairings in current continuity (e.g. Philippus and Hippolyta, Nubia and Io), but honestly...someone needs to give Diana a girlfriend already. I know Greg Rucka has been vocal about her bisexuality since his original run and I trust that he pushed for more than we got, but the lip service he paid to her having a girlfriend she left behind on Themyscira in Year One was about as satisfying as the inert flirtationship between her and Io in his original run.

Sidenote, this is beef I have with DCEU Wonder Woman. I like her overall, and I loved the first WW movie and the Diana/Steve pairing in it, but did they have to make her and the movie Amazons, like...Entourage levels of straight? Maybe I'm just still mad about the part of WW84 where she begs Steve to let her give up her powers to be with him and he has to convince her otherwise.

It sure didn't help where they did a big splash page in 2021's Queer Pride special and she was missing from it. They won't outright say Diana's not queer, but they do want to hide it and I suspect it's because they didn't want to anger China since they want to keep making Wonder Woman movies.

Of all the characters to omit from that promo splash page, Wonder Woman? When years prior she was on the cover to their Love is Love book? It definitely looked strange to this reader, and I'm a cis hetero white dude, so if I'm noticing it that means it's in 50 story bold font.

[Timothy Hunter]

By Golden Age I'm gonna assume that you mean the Marston-Hummel Era. Of course it's a comic from the 40s so the writing style was very stiff, and the bondage obviously shouldn't come back, but I would go as far as saying that Diana was more interesting in that era than in most stories since. This was when the Wonderverse was as large as the entire Marvel Cinematic Universe, and yet the heart of the stories was just 2 powerful themes:
1 What does it mean to use power with virtue.
2 And why believing in something makes it be true

Everything in those stories was filtered through these two themes, and yet we had the most diverse and expansive lore in any comic at the time. There were all these different planets and civilizations with their own ideologies. There was an astral dimension that Diana could visit where the power of thought and emotion was even more pronounced, and where she would find certain villains. There was a microscopic kingdom lead by a queen with an army of automatons that was trying to conquer the much larger regular world.

And most of all, Diana was actually making some changes to society, by changing lives on person at a time, and the Holliday Girls were the prime example of this happening. These women were learning the ideology of the Amazons, not just in combat, but in science and spirituality, and they were on the path towards creating a small utopia within a college campus.

These are all the things missing in the modern stories of Wonder Woman. The massive unique lore on earth and in space, and the powerful ways Diana is changing the world. Of course I don't want them to write the action or the romance like they did in the 40s, but we have to recognize the power of these ideas and how essential they are.

In a few short paragraphs you've really made me want to check out the Marston- era Wonder Woman. I've read a select few issues from the Siegel-Shuster Superman and the Kane-Finger Batman but I've never checked out the Golden Age Wonder Woman comics.

Do you think the richness of the Wonder Woman lore diminished when Marston left the title or was it a gradual decline?

[Alpha]

I've only read a few stories from the early years after Marston's death. From what I read it seems that initially Robert Kanigher was keeping the ambitious (and a bit silly) worldbuilding. And he even kept the Holliday Girls for another 3 years before they were abandoned altogether.

That said, I can't testify to how well he handled those themes in the early years. I'm guessing it was a gradual decline. To be clear, there were still cool ideas in the silver age, but they were just silly storiesm they didn't have any thematic weight (from what I've read).

[Rightoya]

Here's another controversial take that's a little less surface-level - I wish people would stop "straight-washing" all things Wonder Woman. The queerness inherent to her and her mythos makes her unique and creators shouldn't fetishize or hypersexualize lesbianism but that doesn't mean all things gay should be totally sanitized. It's a big reason why the demigod thing is so bleh (beyond it just being boring and derivative, which it is). I'm definitely not a purist about her origin - I loved how Legend of Wonder Woman played out and even though it's polarizing among fans I actually dug the Dead Earth origin - but just like how from a feminist perspective it means something that she doesn't draw her power from a man, from a queer perspective it means something that she wasn't born from a hetero relationship. I get that focusing on it too much is isolating to the average reader and I don't expect it to be at the forefront of every story, but as the rare reader who is neither straight nor a man it's cool that there's a powerful, non-niche character with sapphic DNA that isn't incidental or tokenized.

They've definitely made some progress there and I'm glad recent writers are exploring queer relationships/characters more with things like Aphrodite's nonbinary child in G. Willow Wilson's run and the multiple canon Amazon pairings in current continuity (e.g. Philippus and Hippolyta, Nubia and Io), but honestly...someone needs to give Diana a girlfriend already. I know Greg Rucka has been vocal about her bisexuality since his original run and I trust that he pushed for more than we got, but the lip service he paid to her having a girlfriend she left behind on Themyscira in Year One was about as satisfying as the inert flirtationship between her and Io in his original run.

Sidenote, this is beef I have with DCEU Wonder Woman. I like her overall, and I loved the first WW movie and the Diana/Steve pairing in it, but did they have to make her and the movie Amazons, like...Entourage levels of straight? Maybe I'm just still mad about the part of WW84 where she begs Steve to let her give up her powers to be with him and he has to convince her otherwise.

Is the general gist of this even that controversial among fans, i would assume this is more controversial among the deciders at DC and WB than among the fans.

[marhawkman]

Is the general gist of this even that controversial among fans, i would assume this is more controversial among the deciders at DC and WB than among the fans.

Well in some ways it's fans wanting WW to be something she's not. What was the original? Reminds me of how part of the Xena fandom wanted to ignore that the character is canonically straight.

[Alpha]

Well in some ways it's fans wanting WW to be something she's not. What was the original? Reminds me of how part of the Xena fandom wanted to ignore that the character is canonically straight.

There are various examples of Diana kissing women in elseworld stories since 1996. And Greg Rucka, one of the top 4 most acclaimed writers she has has already declared it in canon stories (suggested in Pre Crisis and absolutely affirmed in Rebirth). There are minor examples of other writers suggesting the same thing like in Justice League Task Force, Batwoman, etc.

Plus the obvious kinkyness of the Marston comics when she wouod play all those bondage and roleplaying games with the other amazons.

And most of all, the fact that she comes from a society of happy women and is all about love, which makes it very obvious why people are so enthusiastic of all the bisexual moments she has had.

It hasn't been explicit, but it is in fact canon per the Greg Rucka stories, and has been reinforced by many other allusions.

[Primal Slayer]

Well in some ways it's fans wanting WW to be something she's not. What was the original? Reminds me of how part of the Xena fandom wanted to ignore that the character is canonically straight.

....we saw that Xena had plenty of questionable relationships w/women so id say she's very much canonically bisexual