Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[WonderLight789]

Well since their insistence on Xena Lite in Wonderdrag I can't argue against this assertion. Replacing lasso and bracelets with sword and shield makes her visual infinitely less reliant on skill (and speed!) as bullets and bracelets is an Amazon skill that was pretty unique to WW. Now she just stands there with the shield. Much less dynamic visually and a lot less reliant on Amazon skill

Except that Xena is actually a very skilled fighter. And she showcases her technique and brain for combat tactics, far more often that the so called greatest ewarrior in DC has in the last 11 years. And New 52 didn't have the shield the first years. Yet she was already a lipservice with no showings in terms of her allegedly amazing skills, just like her allegedly amazing power level.

[phonogram12]

You're misconstruing what I wrote, and I never said I want Diana or imagine her to be weaker than Superman. I don't have to shit on Superman to comment on Diana and in even fights I'm still giving it to Diana over Superman. I literally wrote she would win more than half the time. You really live in your own world, don't cha?

They really do.

[bardkeep]

I wanna read the book that the power level peeps demand. An incoherent succession of absurd feats and Diana beating the crap out of her friends for no reason. No thoughts, just vibes. Bliss.

[phonogram12]

It sounds like an early Image Rob Liefeld book. lol

[Stanlos]

I wanna read the book that the power level peeps demand. An incoherent succession of absurd feats and Diana beating the crap out of her friends for no reason. No thoughts, just vibes. Bliss.

No thanks for me. That would be like DBZ in print form with a whole issue full of lines and "UUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHJNNNNNN" as the only dialogue. #Pass

[Stanlos]

Except that Xena is actually a very skilled fighter. And she showcases her technique and brain for combat tactics, far more often that the so called greatest ewarrior in DC has in the last 11 years. And New 52 didn't have the shield the first years. Yet she was already a lipservice with no showings in terms of her allegedly amazing skills, just like her allegedly amazing power level.

I find it hilarious that even when someone is agreeing with you still you manage to gripe. It's kind of fascinating

[bardkeep]

No thanks for me. That would be like DBZ in print form with a while issue full of lines and "UUUUUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHJNNNNNN" as the only dialogue. #Pass

Haha we're on the same page, was just ribbing

[Perseus]

It's funny until you remember that shit like DBZ outsells a ton of high-profile comics.

[Stanlos]

It's funny until you remember that shit like DBZ outsells a ton of high-profile comics.

I am aware. But still do not wish that fare upon anything I like unless as an alternative line so I can promptly ignore it. The dialogue feels very junior to me and the less I say about the plots the less people I will offend.

[Perseus]

I am aware. But still do not wish that fare upon anything I like unless as an alternative line so I can promptly ignore it. The dialogue feels very junior to me and the less I say about the plots the less people I will offend.

Believe me I don't like it either, but it sells, and we have to acknowledge it. I'm not as extreme as mystic but I do agree with them at the core. There are serious problems with Diana's world both in the current narrative and overall. And one of it is her presence of power.

[Perseus]

You can write stories where Diana is forced into a position to 'show off' and use a planet as a wrecking ball or whatever AND it can be good. Talented writers do this all the time with other powerhouses; Superman, Green Lantern, New Gods, SHAZAM, Thor, Hulk, etc... it's a cool action moment that's part of a larger story. But weirdly ignored when it comes female characters. Tell me, do you see Diana doing ANYTHING like her post-crisis feats in her current state? answer: no. Diana is an action/adventure character; so, when there is no action, and the adventure is boring AF, some people get upset, stop buying, and ask 'what's up?'. She's not Mother Terresa, she isn't some pacifist that would rather give speeches than prove her ideals with actions. She's a god dang warrior princess, she likes adventure, she's active, she's intelligent and strong willed. We sit here and post about how truly vast and creative her universe is and your shocked that people get furious seeing her boxed in this tiny world that limits her?

Controversial opinion: people tend to overlook obvious poor storytelling and character for fun easter eggs and references and it's no different in this forum.

[Primal Slayer]

When was the last time Supes, GL, a new God or Shazam used a planet as a wrecking ball? Or even really even showed off in some huge way in GL/Shazam standards?

[Alpha]

When was the last time Supes, GL, a new God or Shazam used a planet as a wrecking ball? Or even really even showed off in some huge way in GL/Shazam standards?

Good question. Someone here will post a screenshot from ome issue of some New 52 secondary comic where Superman was said to be handling a machine with the strength of a planet.

Which to be clear, isn't the same thing at all, and isn't even in this continuity

[bardkeep]

You can write stories where Diana is forced into a position to 'show off' and use a planet as a wrecking ball or whatever AND it can be good. Talented writers do this all the time with other powerhouses; Superman, Green Lantern, New Gods, SHAZAM, Thor, Hulk, etc... it's a cool action moment that's part of a larger story. But weirdly ignored when it comes female characters. Tell me, do you see Diana doing ANYTHING like her post-crisis feats in her current state? answer: no. Diana is an action/adventure character; so, when there is no action, and the adventure is boring AF, some people get upset, stop buying, and ask 'what's up?'. She's not Mother Terresa, she isn't some pacifist that would rather give speeches than prove her ideals with actions. She's a god dang warrior princess, she likes adventure, she's active, she's intelligent and strong willed. We sit here and post about how truly vast and creative her universe is and your shocked that people get furious seeing her boxed in this tiny world that limits her?

Controversial opinion: people tend to overlook obvious poor storytelling and character for fun easter eggs and references and it's no different in this forum.

I agree with kernels of this. It's something I've expressed frustration with in other threads but for me it's less about feats (though don't get me wrong, love a good feat) and more about the overall scale of the stories. I think the power scaling is just a consequence of broader storytelling decisions that have made her smaller and less interesting.

It started with Year One IMO, and other than the beautiful artwork it's a story I like less and less the more I think about it. Most of that stems from how unfavorably it compares to Gods and Mortals, other than the welcome change of Rucka's Diana being less buttoned-up/chaste than Perez's. It had no intellect, courage, or thematic depth. Y1 has a weirdly pro-military bent while G&M critiques it (Steve is a whistleblower, military leadership is full of jerks, Diana being antagonized by them is a key moment in her development), G&M emphasizes her relationship with other women (the Kapatelises, the Amazons) while Y1 prioritizes her relationship with Steve, G&M digs into the history of the Amazons while Y1 relegates it to a single line about Mala's past life...the list could go on.

But I think the change with the biggest impact on scale is how it removed Ares from the equation. Ares/Mars has been her archenemy since Marston, and for me their confrontation in Perez's run is as essential a moment as her seeing Steve crash on the island. Her entire mission is framed around the divine struggle between her (absolute force of the feminine, healing, life-giving) and Ares (absolute force of the masculine, destructive, warlike), which adds focus and scope that makes her unique. Plus it ties her more closely to the legacy of the Amazons, since he was the architect behind their capture by Heracles.

Losing that cosmic struggle with Year One was super disappointing, especially considering what a great job Rucka did with that dynamic in his first run. It set up a really lackluster, low-stakes era for the character. And sadly I don't see Cloonrad bringing any of that great Perez-era stuff back, even though after all of the weird retconny stuff they have the opportunity to do so.

[phonogram12]

I find it hilarious that even when someone is agreeing with you still you manage to gripe. It's kind of fascinating

I applaud you on your diplomacy, Stanlos, especially since there are far more colorful words you could've used that would've been every bit as accurate.