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  1. #541
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Rucka at least understand her. Azz did the worst thing. There are also good things that have happened in many runs. I hope we can see consinsent in her runs but every sense she lost her editor this has affected her greatly. What makes Diana sales down is the lack of continuity. Even if there a new arc at times there is just this missing puzzle piece. Generally it seems that the outside the main continue does better
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  2. #542
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    In the Golden Age, when Diana wasn't at Steve's office or Paradise Island, she was almost always at Holliday College. If there's to be no Beach-house cast, maybe, her continuity - a cast, regular location - could begin, there. Otherwise, I think this annoying cycle of things happening to her is doomed to continue, if only because her stories don't really start from anywhere.

    AS THE SUN RISES OVER MARSTON CITY, ITS ERSTWHILE PROTECTRESS, PRINCESS DIANA OF THEMYSCIRA LAUNCHES HERSELF INTO HOT PURSUIT OF THE MOST DANGEROUS WOMAN ALIVE...


    That can't happen, because she doesn't really live or rest anywhere. So, things just happen to her, seemingly out of the blue.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 06-16-2019 at 04:33 AM.
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  3. #543
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    Honestly I would have loved Holliday College to be brought back. If Diana is in the right location where Diana interacted with magic and insane it can work. Gateway is a link to many dimensions. Think of students Diana could meet
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  4. #544
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Something unique, and exotic, distinct to the Amazons, rather than a known method. There's a tendency to fixate on the disciplines from East Asia, when many cultures, even Europeans, developed effective hand to hand techniques. Pre-British-encounter Hawaiians, for example, developed a particularly nasty method that centered on breaking bones.

    Point is, illustrators shouldn't try to mold WW's movements around a known discipline, but make her a master of a system the Amazons developed.
    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Pankration should be enough for them.
    I like the idea of using one based on Pankration. But modified to fit the requirements of the Amazons. Pankration is, well, meant for killing your enemy.

    I have to agree on not focusing on eastern techniques. Technically British style boxing counts as a martial art. It's actually quite a powerful striking discipline. Just ask anyone who ever got beat down by Mohammed Ali or Mike Tyson. A novice at Judo, Karate or Kung-fu will lose to an experienced boxer.

    I've personally only studied MACP and MCC. They focus on a mix of disarming and incapacitating opponents, but with a sub-focus on having options for doing so without creating permanent harm.

  5. #545
    Astonishing Member marhawkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    That adaption was terrible for a number of reasons, particularly the ending where instead of the JL kicking Batman out, Batman leaves after verbally berating the League because the writers couldn’t stop fellating him.
    They didn't kick him out in the original story. He left before they told him the verdict.
    Yeah, Batman's ego can't handle rejection. If he thinks a team doesn't want him around he'll just leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by phonogram12 View Post
    I am just going to say that Diana should be the most skilled super powered fighter.
    I have a general disdain for the idea of declaring any character as "THE" best/strongest/toughest/etc..... it creates a limitation on telling stories that's awkward to write around.
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    I kinda focus on the champion part and not the Wonder Woman part. Meaning there have been champions of the Amazons before, Hippolyta certainly among them, but perhaps for different things. Diana is obviously the greatest among them for many reasons, but before she was around there were other skilled Amazons called upon to prove their skill, smarts, and mettle - at least that helps me with my previous Amazon champion character.

    I’m kinda Perezian in my thinking that Wonder Woman is a moniker given to her in Man’s World, not unlike Lois Lane coining Superman, IIRC.
    Or maybe a moniker given to a former champion? Either way it's a name she uses that's not directly connected to being the Champion of Themiscyra. So it works as her identity since you won't see another Amazon try to use it while she does.

  6. #546
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I like the idea of using one based on Pankration. But modified to fit the requirements of the Amazons. Pankration is, well, meant for killing your enemy.

    I have to agree on not focusing on eastern techniques. Technically British style boxing counts as a martial art. It's actually quite a powerful striking discipline. Just ask anyone who ever got beat down by Mohammed Ali or Mike Tyson. A novice at Judo, Karate or Kung-fu will lose to an experienced boxer.

    I've personally only studied MACP and MCC. They focus on a mix of disarming and incapacitating opponents, but with a sub-focus on having options for doing so without creating permanent harm.
    Well, it could kill, but it had a lot of grappling moves as well. And given that grappling techniques are considered very useful in all sorts of fighting with weapons (especially in armour), it could be a good basis.

    The main thing about pankration is that we don't know a lot about how it was done (apart from some descriptions from matches and some pictures on pottery). The movie I think did a rather interesting synthesis of various styles, but I'd like to see some more punching and definitely more grappling with throws and holds for submission.

    There is a very interesting analysis of Wonder Woman's movie fighting styles over on Yotube. Well worth a look, if you haven't seen it.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  7. #547
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    Quote Originally Posted by marhawkman View Post
    I have a general disdain for the idea of declaring any character as "THE" best/strongest/toughest/etc..... it creates a limitation on telling stories that's awkward to write around.
    To an extent, I agree, but DC likes to hammer home just how good she is, so I was just rolling with that.

    That said, I'm generally not a huge fan of superhumans being the best at anything skill-wise when compared regular humans. In a shared universe that just doesn't work with characters who have nothing but their skill to rely on. If DC ever did insist that WW was the most skilled fighter or Superman was also the most brilliant scientist or whatever, I'd rather they just shunt them off to their own respective universes.
    Last edited by phonogram12; 06-17-2019 at 09:58 AM.
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  8. #548
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I’m curious with the Banas being the lost tribe of Amazons should the Banas actually being taken back land? In some origins the Amazons were created in turkey
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  9. #549
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    What is wrong with Rucka's stand-in for real-life Virginia Beach? Could this coastal locale be tweaked into your iconic city?
    To me, as in my POV only, it's not iconic enough to eventually stand shoulder-to-shoulder with Metropolis or Gotham in a thematic way that builds on Diana's character and legend. It needs to be a bit more timeless to me. (Again, my opinion and what I want to see only.)

  10. #550
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    I am not sure if this belongs here, or in a new topic, but it's an opinion, and it's probably controversial, so here I go...

    I just read 'Injustice vs. Masters of the Universe' (for those who didn't read it: spoilers ahead!), and I'm disappointed how weak and unfocused Diana is here. If she's a villain, she should be a strong villain! I had hoped that She-Ra, the Princess of Power, would be in that story, and that she would be a worthy opponent for Diana. It turns out that She-Ra doesn't appear at all. Instead, all action is reserved for the male characters, and Diana is taken down by a character that I had to google first to find out who she's supposed to be: Captain Teela.

    Teela stabs Diana in the back (and nearly kills her!), while Diana is gloating over Batman. Didn't this Diana learn anything from her aunt Antiope? I can still hear her: 'Never think that a fight will be fair!'. Another piece of advice that Antiope should have given Diana: 'Never turn your back to an enemy unless she's dead!'

    In addition, Injustice!Superman is a fool. When Diana gives him solid tactical advice ('Strike now, today, and we can crush the resistance!'), he doesn't listen to her, gets distracted, and goes for some secondary objective instead. According to various origin stories, Diana
    - was trained by Ares, the god of War
    - was actually the goddess of War for some time
    - has the wisdom of Athena, who is, among other jobs, also a goddess of War
    while Kal-El is a farm boy from Kansas. So she should know a little more about strategy and warfare than him, and he should really listen to her.

    Now, I realize that this is an AU, and both of them suffer from a severe case of Plot-Induced Stupidity. But it got me thinking. What if Injustice!Diana realizes that her Superman is his own worst enemy; and that to see something done right, you have to do it yourself. What if she decides to get rid of Superman, and rule the world all by herself?

    Which got me thinking some more. Didn't Dr. Marston say (from memory): 'Wonder Woman is the prototype of the women of the future, who should rule the world'? Let's see her do it! Even from the POV of the 'regime', it could be a smart move. Injustice!Superman is probably the most-hated person on earth, so it would be smart to remove him and put a new figurehead in his place.

    How would Injustice!Diana rule the world? Let's again look at what Dr. Marston said (also from memory): The world would be a better place if it was ruled by women. Women will rule the world with love. Women should take power from men, and keep men in a kind of sexual slavery. (Of course, it can't be too kinky or explicit in the comics.) The way to happiness (for men, I suppose!) is submission to a loving authority. (Injustice!Diana probably isn't too great on the 'loving' part, and more on the 'authority' part.)

    How can Diana take control of the world, and turn it into a kind of feminist (or femi-nazi) utopia?

    She could team up with Circe. Circe has powerful magic that can turn men into pigs. (Opportunity for some puns about there not being much of a difference before/after.) In the Heinberg run, Circe stole Diana's powers (and looks), and set herself up as a new 'Wonder Woman' who ruled with an iron fist. She would be the perfect ally for Diana's scheme... except that they have been arch-enemies for a long time, and Circe would never play second fiddle to anyone - especially not to Diana. Even if Diana had some leverage on Circe, Circe would betray Diana at the first possible moment, unless Diana betrays her first...

    Diana could team up with Poison Ivy. Ivy generates pheromones that turn (nearly) every man into a drooling idiot, who obeys her every whim. If those pheromones could be mass-produced, every woman could make men subservient. Ivy's schemes usually involve the elimination of all mankind, to make earth a paradise for plants, but she might like the idea of a less-violent and less-greedy world ruled by women, and go along with Diana's plans, On the other hand, the pheromones only work on short distance, and some men (Batman!) seem to be immune. And let's be honest: it surely helps that Ivy is hot (and Diana is also), but I don't see any amount of pheromones making a man fall for, say, Granny Goodness...

    Finally, we have seen in Justice League Dark that Diana has some of Hecate's powers. If that's true in the Injustice universe, she could 'simply' perform the required magic and _will_ it. Can she generate that much magical power, to change the whole world?

    Anyway, I would like to see an AU where Diana tries to rule the world, and men are taken out of the story (especially Superman and Batman!). Her opponents would be some female superheroes (Supergirl, Jessica (Green Lantern) etc.), the female members of the Bat clan (Batgirl, Huntress etc.), and some female supervillains (Cheetah, Veronica Cale etc.). Some heroines (and villains) will support her - e.g. I could imagine that Starfire has enough bad memories about men that she would support Diana...

  11. #551
    Extraordinary Member Celgress's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how "controversial" these opinions of mine are but here goes -

    1.) I think the WW/SM pairing should be given a chance in an AU setting. If it proves popular enough (I know they sell a metric ton of couples merchandise already across multiple demographics) who knows going forward.

    2.) In the main continuity, WW should be portrayed as openly bi and given a girlfriend to test the waters so to speak. (Like with the above) If the idea of a female love interest sticks it should be integrated into WW's mythos.
    Last edited by Celgress; 06-18-2019 at 02:38 PM.
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  12. #552
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I don't know there already been several hints for years of Diana being bi. Does having her have a girlfriend need to be official right now? I'm only saying this due to the fact she hasn't been with the main pairing of Steve in awhile. I would at least like to see them to get together before anything


    I wonder since Dc really wasn't didn't see Diana's movie to do well. Is there anyway that since she did this can chance her in comics/
    Last edited by AmiMizuno; 06-18-2019 at 09:13 PM.
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  13. #553
    Extraordinary Member AmiMizuno's Avatar
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    I'm curious many writers are try to write Diana out of her natural element but it faults. I know there been a few good ones. How should a writer write a Wonder Woman story that's not generally something she is in?
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  14. #554
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmiMizuno View Post
    I don't know there already been several hints for years of Diana being bi. Does having her have a girlfriend need to be official right now? I'm only saying this due to the fact she hasn't been with the main pairing of Steve in awhile. I would at least like to see them to get together before anything
    Yes, it does.

    The only on-camera showing of Diana with a romantic/sexual relation to a woman that I know of is with Kasia, and that was only a few frames and can be interpreted as close friendship or as "lesbian until graduation".

    There is a ton of cultural bias that make same-sex relations invisible, and in a way you'll need to be more explicit and forceful in showing same-sex relations in order to make sure they get visible and stay that way.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  15. #555
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    It really wouldn't make a matter in the long-run of the character, for me at least, since her most important and famous relationship will always be with Steve Trevor. If they mention she was bi, it'd be whatever. Everyone knows she loves Steve.
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