Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[SiegePerilous02]

Well, what was his major contribution to the story before the Perez run? Outside of introducing Diana to the world outside of Themyscira, that is.



There's the Wilson run. His and Diana's relationship also didn't seem too healthy in the Silver Age.

He at least had a role as a love interest and their first encounter with each other was about them instead of setting up other characters (Diana Trevor, and Julia did all the introducing to Man's World). Diana had even already won the contest and was in the process of leaving before Steve even crashed. Perez not only didn't improve on making Steve interesting, he made him completely superfluous to the narrative. As evidenced by his decreasing role as the run goes on and subsequent writers not caring to use him.

The Wilson run was kind of a dud for every major WW character. And if we are judging based on Silver Age writing, every romance should probably be thrown out

[Agent Z]

He at least had a role as a love interest and their first encounter with each other was about them instead of setting up other characters (Diana Trevor, and Julia did all the introducing to Man's World). Diana had even already won the contest and was in the process of leaving before Steve even crashed. Perez not only didn't improve on making Steve interesting, he made him completely superfluous to the narrative. As evidenced by his decreasing role as the run goes on and subsequent writers not caring to use him.

The Wilson run was kind of a dud for every major WW character. And if we are judging based on Silver Age writing, every romance should probably be thrown out

They'd killed Steve off twice before the reboot. I don't think Perez alone is the reason subsequent writers weren't interested in him. Even in the Golden Age, their relationship wasn't all that important and it can be argued that Steve only existed as a token male so as not to completely ward off male readers. If the book were made today, he probably wouldn't exist or at least wouldn't be a love interest.

I have no problem with Steve being around but I don't think he works at a love interest at all and most of the stories about him as Diana's boyfriend or husband don't make a compelling argument for him to be in that role.

[SiegePerilous02]

They'd killed Steve off twice before the reboot. I don't think Perez alone is the reason subsequent writers weren't interested in him. Even in the Golden Age, their relationship wasn't all that important and it can be argued that Steve only existed as a token male so as not to completely ward off male readers. If the book were made today, he probably wouldn't exist or at least wouldn't be a love interest.

I have no problem with Steve being around but I don't think he works at a love interest at all and most of the stories about him as Diana's boyfriend or husband don't make a compelling argument for him to be in that role.

So why didn't Perez just retire the character period? If writers and fans weren't too interested in the years before the reboot, how was Perez's take going to change anything? He clearly wasn't too interested in even his own version of Steve, and nobody else was either.

Keeping his place in Diana's life as her first love and killing him off after giving him a good send off like the first movie did would probably be the best of both worlds. Just having him as a platonic friend who hangs around collecting dust hasn't generated any good stories since the 80s, whereas the love interest role at least got us one good story

[bardkeep]

Keeping his place in Diana's life as her first love and killing him off after giving him a good send off like the first movie did would probably be the best of both worlds. Just having him as a platonic friend who hangs around collecting dust hasn't generated any good stories since the 80s, whereas the love interest role at least got us one good story

100% agreed, though obviously I'd nix the part where she's pining over him forever...

No one has ever known what to do with Steve past Diana's origin. The first film had probably the best portrayal of Steve ever (with the blessing of one of the most charming men alive playing him), they wrote the entire sequel around bringing him back, and they still totally blew it trying to make him work. Maybe it's because Marston didn't design him to be a real character - in the GA he basically just existed to pine, pester Diana, and offer occasional back-up while she was off on adventures with the Holliday Girls or the other Amazons. (And on a related note, I'd LOVE to see them make Etta a civilian again and re-introduce the Holliday Girls - Legend of WW was a recent testament to how awesome they could be - but sadly I doubt that'll ever happen).

The issue is that WW not being able to keep a consistent supporting cast has been a blight on the character, but I really think she needs it right now because the supporting cast Rucka set up in Rebirth sucks. He only made it work because the heart of his supporting cast in Year One was Barbara (which was very dumb, considering she was doomed from the start...) and his second arc was more about Veronica Cale than Diana. Honestly, as great of a writer as Rucka is, that's a huge weakness of his - he writes absolutely killer self-contained stories but he really struggles to set things up for the writers following him.

Orlando's run only worked because he brought in both new and existing characters from all over the place and focused a lot on the Amazons. Cloonan and Conrad have been trying with Siggy but he's just nowhere near enough.

[Donpayne]

100% agreed, though obviously I'd nix the part where she's pining over him forever...

No one has ever known what to do with Steve past Diana's origin. The first film had probably the best portrayal of Steve ever (with the blessing of one of the most charming men alive playing him), they wrote the entire sequel around bringing him back, and they still totally blew it trying to make him work. Maybe it's because Marston didn't design him to be a real character - in the GA he basically just existed to pine, pester Diana, and offer occasional back-up while she was off on adventures with the Holliday Girls or the other Amazons. (And on a related note, I'd LOVE to see them make Etta a civilian again and re-introduce the Holliday Girls - Legend of WW was a recent testament to how awesome they could be - but sadly I doubt that'll ever happen).

The issue is that WW not being able to keep a consistent supporting cast has been a blight on the character, but I really think she needs it right now because the supporting cast Rucka set up in Rebirth sucks. He only made it work because the heart of his supporting cast in Year One was Barbara (which was very dumb, considering she was doomed from the start...) and his second arc was more about Veronica Cale than Diana. Honestly, as great of a writer as Rucka is, that's a huge weakness of his - he writes absolutely killer self-contained stories but he really struggles to set things up for the writers following him.

Orlando's run only worked because he brought in both new and existing characters from all over the place and focused a lot on the Amazons. Cloonan and Conrad have been trying with Siggy but he's just nowhere near enough.

I believe it's just sad that in 80 years, we can't have characters with the back story and get readers invested.

In real life, my friends would die for a love life with a guy like Steve, but for storyline perspective writers need to make some efforts. A lot of hate I see for the character is for how he was written in GA and the lack of struggle in his character to be where he is. The former should be let go off after decades whereas for the latter, Consistency has been the pain point for Wonderverse and possibly Steve has been the most affected.

Diana sees Steve worthy of a partner and for me that's good enough, but that's just what I feel.

[Alpha]

Steve isn't the quintessential love interest, and Diana doesn't need a One True Love. She deserves love, through various people. Various relationships with extremely interesting people.

With all the ways to make Steve more interesting shouldn't be a way to stick a single love interest on Diana. And remember, Diana doesn't need nice, competent characters around her, (nor does she need problematic characters). What she needs is characters that jump off the page with how unique and intriguing their personality, philosphy and talents are.

[Psy-lock]

I think the human cast will always be kinda sucky for WW, cause the Amazons are cooler by default. The only (non-Amazon) supporting characters I really like are Myndi Mayer and the Kapatelis family. They're the only ones with distinct personalities and some meaty stories. Steve never really worked for me outside of the first movie and DCAU. I like Etta in some Elseworld stories, but not so much in the main book. Ferdinand is cool, but underused. I like Siggy so far, hope he sticks around.

[WonderScott]

I kind of want Steve around as a love interest, because we’ve never really gotten a great, exciting romantic story or stories with them. I’d love to see that happen if only to explore their affection and desire for one another and play around with and comment on and challenge gender roles, power dynamics, heteronormativity, etc.

Diana was created to explore all those things within a superhero, fantasy and sci-fi context. Let her do the things she was meant to do.

[Guy_McNichts]

I've mixed feelings on whether Steve should get killed off or just go away. They did remove him as the go-to love interest in Post-Crisis, but that wound up creating a whole new set of problems. He's not the most compelling character, but I think he is handy to have available.

He probably shouldn't be portrayed as Diana's "one and only" though, because then writers who want to explore other relationships for Diana have to work around him in some awkward way.
I know some might suggest Diana should be polygamous, but considering Warner-DC is still too terrified to even definitively portray her as Bi in canon, I think we're long way from that.

I think part of the problem is writers try to make Steve (and to a certain extent Etta) active agents who charge into battle by Diana's side...hence the emphasis on them being spies or government agents or soldiers. But this is a problem for two reasons.

One, a protagonist needs foils for that sort of thing, and Steve ain't it. He works best--if at all--as Diana's supportive boyfriend. Chris Pine's depictions best function was standing aside and being amazed at how great she is. But that only worked for one movie and was pretty tiresome in the sequel (among the other problems of his return).
It that does not make him a compelling co-lead, and when writers try to make him a contrasting foil character, we end up with the smarmy douche-nozzle seen in the '09 animated movie who spends the whole time negging Diana.

The other problem this creates is it demands any threat Diana battles can't be so dangerous that Steve won't get smushed into paste during the fight. So, she's stuck in the proverbial kiddy-pool fighting mid-level enemies while her proper, world-beater rogues are left on the bench.

And the solution to this shouldn't be a mystery: this is why characters like Nubia, Artemis and Wonder Girl (any of them) exist! They do contrast Diana and can properly fight by her side in battle.
But where are they? It's cool that Nubia's Queen and all, and does pop up in some capacity, but she is stuck on the island now. Artemis is currently MIA. The Wonder Girls get more panel-time in team books than they do in Wonder Woman's solo.

I know the growing trend in superhero comics for non-powered civilian characters to get left behind and overshadowed by an overcrowded "Family" of heroes is a problem. But ideally there should be a balance. Let Nubia and Artemis actively participate in adventures by Wonder Woman's side, then Diana can go home and hang out with Steve and Etta to unwind.

[Alpha]

In my fanfic take on Etta Candy, she was supernaturally blessed with extreme luck. That's why she can safely exist inside Diana's stories. She an outrageous person with chaotic and imposing attitude, and no matter how much trouble she gets into, she always has this lucky aura around her.

It's just like the demigods of greek mythology. Divine blessing.

Of course Etta will still lose in so many other ways. She's still just a person with a soul that can be destroyed by all the evil in this world

[Donpayne]

Controversial Opinion:

Would like to have more mainstream Wonder Women than just Diana just like I want Miles Morales's Spidey to be just as mainstream as Peter Parker

[Gaius]

I like Steve but I do agree it's hard to figure what a long-term plan with him is. One of his best strengths however is that Diana is 100% in the driver's seat when they're a couple, which has never been the case with the situations of Batman and Superman when those come up and likely never will be the case based off the creative types who work on DC properties. Which for a character with WW's creation is actively insulting.

[VonHammersmark]

The fans LOVE that Diana’s relationship with Steve “subverts gender roles” but, interestingly, nobody knows how to make such a relationship work or what to do with poor old Steve lol

Maybe the relationship doesn’t work because it subverts gender roles, the gender dynamics between Steve and Wonder Woman are frankly not appealing to anyone

[Alpha]

Lol. That's a nonsensical take

[Guy_McNichts]

The fans LOVE that Diana’s relationship with Steve “subverts gender roles” but, interestingly, nobody knows how to make such a relationship work or what to do with poor old Steve lol

Maybe the relationship doesn’t work because it subverts gender roles, the gender dynamics between Steve and Wonder Woman are frankly not appealing to anyone

I don't think so. If anything, the core issue with Steve seems similar to problems writers have with any non-powered/civilian love interest...what to do with them aside from putting them in peril or contriving excuses for them to get involved with the hero's adventures.

Maybe they should just make Steve a dude-in-distress more often?

I will say although the handling of him might not be as effective as how Lois is treated in Superman, I do think we have it better than how the Spider-Editors deal with Mary Jane.