Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Jackalope89]

I'm curious if the amazons had children. Should it also be based on Perez? That children who have terrible life were collected and given to the Amazons? I mean many girls are still killed for being girls. What if that is how Amazons have children?

True, but also many boys would fit that criteria. While I'm sure as children in need, they would be welcome to the island. As they grow up though...

Along that same note, I did come across a fanfic where Diana comes across Jason Todd (one of those very kinds of kids at the time) as he's stealing the Batmobile's wheels. She then takes him in, introduces him to the other Amazons, etc.

[AmiMizuno]

I wonder. In terms of why the Amazons can't have the boys still is what if it's not their choice? That they are forced to? That Hera cursed the Island? She was the one who caused Hercules insanity. So what if she didn't want them to reproduce?

[DrNewGod]

True, but also many boys would fit that criteria. While I'm sure as children in need, they would be welcome to the island. As they grow up though...

Along that same note, I did come across a fanfic where Diana comes across Jason Todd (one of those very kinds of kids at the time) as he's stealing the Batmobile's wheels. She then takes him in, introduces him to the other Amazons, etc.

That would make for a splendid Elseworlds comic.

[AmiMizuno]

So if boys were on the Island until they grow up, how should the Amazons deal with this? Maybe they spend them to a Island near by? I mean generally we see Islands around Paradise Island. That maybe Ares being locked on the Island found away to turn the men against their families. This would also lead to the daughters and that's why they wear the bracelets. That it's header for a god to control you.

[hgzip]

[...]
For one in Egyptians come in all skin colors and two several important people in ancient Egypt had olive to light skin. Cleopatra is often named one of them.

Off-topic: Cleopatra VII (that's the one with Julius Caesar and Marc Anthony) wasn't really an Egyptian. She was a remote descendant of Ptolemy I Soter, who was a Macedonian general in the army of Alexander the Great. After the death of Alexander, Ptolemy managed to stay in power in Egypt and make Egypt his personal kingdom, which was passed on in his family down to Cleopatra VII.

Because Ptolemy's father was named Lagos, the whole family clan is sometimes called the Lagidae. The Lagidae frequently married among each other, and tried to exclude the Egyptians. They didn't even speak their language - the official language of the court was Greek, and if one of the Ptolemean kings needed to speak to an Egyptian, he needed an interpreter. This was not true for Cleopatra, however. She was the first and only in her family to learn Egyptian, and she actually spoke 5 or 6 languages fluently. (BTW, we should be happy that the Lagidae were too lazy and/or arrogant to speak Egyptian. The famous Rosetta stone, which holds the same text in Greek and hieroglyphic, was written in their time. That stone was crucial in the decipherment of the hieroglyphic script and the Egyptian language, because the Greek version could be read easily, and helped to get a handle on the hieroglyphic version).

Anyway, due to the attitude of the Lagidae to the Egyptians, and the frequent intermarriage, it is reasonable to assume that Cleopatra looked more like a Greek, and less like an Egyptian... and I don't know if she was as beautiful as Elizabeth Taylor in the movie...

[Jackalope89]

Off-topic: Cleopatra VII (that's the one with Julius Caesar and Marc Anthony) wasn't really an Egyptian. She was a remote descendant of Ptolemy I Soter, who was a Macedonian general in the army of Alexander the Great. After the death of Alexander, Ptolemy managed to stay in power in Egypt and make Egypt his personal kingdom, which was passed on in his family down to Cleopatra VII.

Because Ptolemy's father was named Lagos, the whole family clan is sometimes called the Lagidae. The Lagidae frequently married among each other, and tried to exclude the Egyptians. They didn't even speak their language - the official language of the court was Greek, and if one of the Ptolemean kings needed to speak to an Egyptian, he needed an interpreter. This was not true for Cleopatra, however. She was the first and only in her family to learn Egyptian, and she actually spoke 5 or 6 languages fluently. (BTW, we should be happy that the Lagidae were too lazy and/or arrogant to speak Egyptian. The famous Rosetta stone, which holds the same text in Greek and hieroglyphic, was written in their time. That stone was crucial in the decipherment of the hieroglyphic script and the Egyptian language, because the Greek version could be read easily, and helped to get a handle on the hieroglyphic version).

Anyway, due to the attitude of the Lagidae to the Egyptians, and the frequent intermarriage, it is reasonable to assume that Cleopatra looked more like a Greek, and less like an Egyptian... and I don't know if she was as beautiful as Elizabeth Taylor in the movie...

Apparently there has been a rendering of how Cleopatra looked in life, and it seems she had a fairly prominent nose, in comparison to Elizabeth Taylor at least.

[Agent Z]

Artemis is fine as is. Rather than slap a new skin color on her, how about a new Amazon is promoted, or an already established one? And maybe have Artemis tutor her like Diana has done with Donna and Cass?

For Diana's age; I kind of like the idea of Hippolyta being the original Wonder Woman in the JSA, and then Diana being about the same age as Bruce and Clark.

As for my controversial opinion;
The Amazons worship one of the deities responsible for them isolating themselves in Hera. Seriously, she set out to make Heracles' life awful from the day he was born. Which included the 12 Labors.

The WW stories are not a full translation of the myths. Depending on the story, Hera isn't involved in the labors.

[Agent Z]

I'd rather they not have children at all (other than Diana of course.....and I'll entertain an argument for Donna). They're immortals with a ridiculously low death rate. They don't need children, and if there's other kids running around it makes Diana's situation more common. I like the idea that Diana was this singular being from the very start; the only child on the Island, beloved and pampered and raised by the entire community. Its like every single Amazon adopted her, but if there's a bunch of kids running around? Then Diana is "just" the queen's daughter......which is a privileged position but not at all the same thing as being the only child in the society.

Didn't care for Perez's whole thing with the abused women. I mean, I get the appeal; it's basically heaven for DV victims (and I do think there's potential there) but it never felt right for the Amazons. It's like.....I dunno, you're born and live a whole life and then suddenly you're expected to train as a warrior and follow the demands of gods no one else believes is real? I dunno, it always felt just a little bit cult-ish to me. Never cared for it, even though I can totally see what Perez was trying to do and I give him props for dealing with the DV issue.

In fairness, they weren't all warriors. And similar origins are done for superheroes. Especially the Batfamily

[kjn]

I'd rather they not have children at all (other than Diana of course.....and I'll entertain an argument for Donna). They're immortals with a ridiculously low death rate. They don't need children, and if there's other kids running around it makes Diana's situation more common. I like the idea that Diana was this singular being from the very start; the only child on the Island, beloved and pampered and raised by the entire community. Its like every single Amazon adopted her, but if there's a bunch of kids running around? Then Diana is "just" the queen's daughter......which is a privileged position but not at all the same thing as being the only child in the society.

I'm of the opposite opinion: I like the idea of Diana growing up with other kids. It opens up so much story potential on Themyscira, and I think would make for a socially more well-rounded Diana once she arrives in Man's World. It can also help explain why only some Amazons participated in the contest, instead of everyone: the contestants were the children of the Amazons, born on the island or on the trek to it.

Diana would still have special status, as molded by clay, the daughter of their queen, and the last child born to the Amazons. But her status among them would be much more the first among equals.

[stargazer01]

in the cover of the new Justice League 27 it seems Diana is running. She doesn't fly anymore or only sometimes?

[marhawkman]

I'm of the opposite opinion: I like the idea of Diana growing up with other kids. It opens up so much story potential on Themyscira, and I think would make for a socially more well-rounded Diana once she arrives in Man's World. It can also help explain why only some Amazons participated in the contest, instead of everyone: the contestants were the children of the Amazons, born on the island or on the trek to it.

Diana would still have special status, as molded by clay, the daughter of their queen, and the last child born to the Amazons. But her status among them would be much more the first among equals.

If you're doing the contest version of WW, then it needs to be among people that are at least close to equal.

[kjn]

If you're doing the contest version of WW, then it needs to be among people that are at least close to equal.

Agreed, though I also think that the contest isn't necessary (both the movie and Earth One did without it without harming the plot any; well, the plot and setup of Earth One was rather badly done, but omitting the contest was not one of the problems).

For the contest to make sense from a world-building perspective, I think the following requirements should hold true:

1. There is a reason why not every single Amazon is participating or volunteering
2. Diana must not have come into her full powers yet

Though now that I think of it, there might be a second possibility. Hippolyta knows that Diana has special powers and strengths, and will win if she enters. The real test would thus be if she is willing to go against her mother's stated wish by actually entering the contest. Though as plots go, that's rather too complex, I think.

[Jackalope89]

in the cover of the new Justice League 27 it seems Diana is running. She doesn't fly anymore or only sometimes?

No, she still flies. She did so in the issue itself.

[VonHammersmark]

Wonder Woman did go several months without flying in either Justice League or Justice League Dark, it was almost as if Snyder/Tynion were testing the waters...

[AmiMizuno]

I'm curious what do you guys think about in Legends of Wonder Woman, Hippoltya was never suppose to have a child. But wanted one so bad?