Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Koriand'r]

I'm trying so hard to have empathy, but other than "deceitful" I really can't see the downside of being considered a Dragon Lady. There are far worse things to be called. Why is it perfectly fine to have American femme fatales, but not Asian ones? Someone enlighten me please.

[Agent Z]

I'm trying so hard to have empathy, but other than "deceitful" I really can't see the downside of being considered a Dragon Lady. There are far worse things to be called. Why is it perfectly fine to have American femme fatales, but not Asian ones? Someone enlighten me please.

The femme fatale trope is pretty contentious in the first place. The Dragon Lady trope has specific roots in the fetishization and demonization of Asian cultures and specifically Asian women.

https://www.hercampus.com/school/ame...western-media/

[Skytten]

The femme fatale trope is pretty contentious in the first place. The Dragon Lady trope has specific roots in the fetishization and demonization of Asian cultures and specifically Asian women.

https://www.hercampus.com/school/ame...western-media/

And that all of their biggest Asian female villains is in this trope AND the Asian babymama trope. One or even two being in one of these tropes isn't inherently a bad thing, but all of them?! That is bad.

[AmiMizuno]

I think it's how you do the trope push it too far than it takes a while to fix the character

[Gaius]

I would be fine if the three Wonder Girls all had their connections to WW's world removed. It's nice when writers want to bother using them but overall, none of the great WW stories really involve them in any meaningful way and at over 80 years in at this point, I doubt there ever will.

[DisneyBoy]

I'm still sad that we won't get one more Patty Jenkins/Gal Gadot Wonder Woman movie. I woke up this morning thinking that I wish we could have gotten a Wonder Woman: Godwatch film as our final movie in the trilogy as a love letter to action heroines.

I was thinking: Michelle Yeoh as Circe, Halle Berry as Silver Swan, Charlize Theron as Paula Von Gunther, Angelina Jolie as Grail, and Geena Davis as Veronica Cale.

I was imagining the the photo spread on the cover of Vanity Fair with these amazing actresses and Patty Jenkins in the center.

Woah. Big! I doubt they'd have ponied up the money for all of them after WW84 though. A third film would have been nice, but with Steve and Etta dead and Barbara probably so poorly received she'd be crossed off the list, you're left with a friendless villain-less heroine. There's nothing to pay off from a narrative standpoint, except her relationship with the Amazons, but even there, it's not as if they were popular with audiences in some big way that would create a ton of hype. Sure, they could have introduced Nubia or something, but even....Beyonce showing up as Nubia in a third Wonder Woman movie would mostly leave people going "huh..?" or "haha" rather than "awesome!"

The studio wouldn't have felt it wise to sink more money or time into redeeming a franchise that would have to end anyway. For one thing, Gal wasn't going to do 3 more movies after, and for another, Hollywood wouldn't have wanted her to. She's on the other side of 30 and the rest of the DCEU was clearly a bust years ago, though WB wasn't ready to admit it.

So...what's the point? To make Jenkins look better? To please the fans of the first movie? There just weren't any reasons strong enough to warrant doing it. They aren't making standalone superhero movies anymore. Everything is about building an interlocking cinematic universe.

Even the Aquaman sequel - which follows up a big successful first entry at the box office - was a flop simply because no one cares about the DCEU anymore. It's over. A third Wonder Woman would have been equally poorly received, no matter how much better it was than the one that came before it.

...at least Gal got to appear in The Flash and Shazam 2, and smile and distance herself slightly from the memory of WW84 in the eyes of the public. She got to take two bows and walk away having reminded people she was one of the better parts of the otherwise disastrous past decade of DC movies.

[SiegePerilous02]

I just re-read "Gods and Mortals" last night, and while it's still great, I do think "Year One" has some clear advantages over it.

G&M's main asset is the grandiose epic story and having the Gods as active participants, with her confrontation with Ares being the highlight that makes the battle with "Ares" in Year One underwhelming in comparison. However, the pacing on the early parts on the island are pretty wonky. Diana wins the Contest, gets her costume and her talisman from Harmonia to prep into going into Man's World before Steve even crashes on the island. He's pretty much an afterthought that can be removed and Diana's mission would remain the same. I think if Steve has to be involved, the way Year One paced it is much better, and provided a more convincing emotional connection between them. Despite Diana saying Steve was like a brother to her in the Perez run, it was rarely actually shown.

Diana not gaining her powers until after the Contest is preferable to her having a clear advantage over the other hard working Amazons because she's the special one.

Since the Cheetah is a much more important player to the franchise than the Kapatelis women, I prefer Barabra taking Julia's early role. I think Julia and Vanessa could have easily been written to be brought in after Barbara becomes Cheetah, but....Robinson.

Etta is a bore in each version, but at least Rucka's isn't insecure about her weight. That's a realistic body image mentality that could be explored in a comic, but it's just not who Etta specifically is.

[Agent Z]

The Trinity Special is a pretty good reason to excise the tournament from Diana's origin.

[WonderLight789]

The Trinity Special is a pretty good reason to excise the tournament from Diana's origin.

It is a little too late. This will likely be an influence to new appearances of WW. Where writers will use she can die from one bullet and is slower than bullets approach. She is pretty much cursed at this point to stay at average super human warrior level.

[Gaius]

I just re-read "Gods and Mortals" last night, and while it's still great, I do think "Year One" has some clear advantages over it.

G&M's main asset is the grandiose epic story and having the Gods as active participants, with her confrontation with Ares being the highlight that makes the battle with "Ares" in Year One underwhelming in comparison. However, the pacing on the early parts on the island are pretty wonky. Diana wins the Contest, gets her costume and her talisman from Harmonia to prep into going into Man's World before Steve even crashes on the island. He's pretty much an afterthought that can be removed and Diana's mission would remain the same. I think if Steve has to be involved, the way Year One paced it is much better, and provided a more convincing emotional connection between them. Despite Diana saying Steve was like a brother to her in the Perez run, it was rarely actually shown.

Diana not gaining her powers until after the Contest is preferable to her having a clear advantage over the other hard working Amazons because she's the special one.

Since the Cheetah is a much more important player to the franchise than the Kapatelis women, I prefer Barabra taking Julia's early role. I think Julia and Vanessa could have easily been written to be brought in after Barbara becomes Cheetah, but....Robinson.

Etta is a bore in each version, but at least Rucka's isn't insecure about her weight. That's a realistic body image mentality that could be explored in a comic, but it's just not who Etta specifically is.

Year One's kind of gone down in the years imo. It's still good but outside of Scott's art and the re-invention of Cheetah, a lot of it is mostly just a modern cover of G&M with a lot less grandeur. That it came out close to LoWW also didn't help.

Plus, I hate the use of the "Year One" title. I prefer when origin stories have their own unique titles rather than just taking Batman's and making a brand of it.

[Frontier]

Year One's kind of gone down in the years imo. It's still good but outside of Scott's art and the re-invention of Cheetah, a lot of it is mostly just a modern cover of G&M with a lot less grandeur. That it came out close to LoWW also didn't help.

Plus, I hate the use of the "Year One" title. I prefer when origin stories have their own unique titles rather than just taking Batman's and making a brand of it.

It is a pretty easy short-hand for "origin story" though.

[Agent Z]

It is a little too late. This will likely be an influence to new appearances of WW. Where writers will use she can die from one bullet and is slower than bullets approach. She is pretty much cursed at this point to stay at average super human warrior level.

That's not why I want it excised.

[Gaius]

It is a pretty easy short-hand for "origin story" though.

Yeah, but it also dilutes the original use and Batman's is the only one that makes sense since that's the only one actually takes place over the course of a year.

[marhawkman]

I'm trying so hard to have empathy, but other than "deceitful" I really can't see the downside of being considered a Dragon Lady. There are far worse things to be called. Why is it perfectly fine to have American femme fatales, but not Asian ones? Someone enlighten me please.

Truth is I think it's too much of an umbrella term for a variety of bad traits. As you noted there is but one true defining aspect... and. it's not the important one.

[SiegePerilous02]

Year One's kind of gone down in the years imo. It's still good but outside of Scott's art and the re-invention of Cheetah, a lot of it is mostly just a modern cover of G&M with a lot less grandeur. That it came out close to LoWW also didn't help.

It being basically a cover highlights both of its strengths and weaknesses, and brings about the strengths and weaknesses of G&M.

The ideal version of the story is probably a mix of the best aspects of both, along with Historia.