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  1. #841
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel Dyer View Post
    'Fabled' does not mean fictional, and especially, when considering Nubia. Nubia (Sudan) is a part of the world, with which legends are freely associated, and it was certainly a fabled land, in the minds of the classical Greeks, like Homer ..and Herodotus. The whole point of his writing was to offer first-hand, real-world insight, beyond the ancient Greek world's myths about that country. Say what you will; Nubia is a fabled and storied land.

    "Removing Circe's connection to the myths would not only fail to make her interesting..." I couldn't disagree, more. Greg Rucka did a pretty good job of creating a Circe, who was refreshingly different, from what had gone before, and who might have been an entirely different character. It's your opinion that Circe has to be Homeric Circe, and not some entirely original character, whose power or other characteristics recall the mythical sorceress. I get that you're coming from a purist position, but, I don't see how keeping Circe, Homeric, ..has made the WW comic, more successful.

    It doesn't dismiss anything I've offered.
    I'm sorry if I'm speaking out of turn, but aren't you the poster that never liked Circe to begin with and is always criticizing her? There's nothing wrong with that if true I feel that way about Cheetah, I'm just curious.
    Last edited by Koriand'r; 08-07-2019 at 02:36 PM.

  2. #842
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I'm sorry if I'm speaking out of turn, but aren't you the poster that never liked Circe to begin with and is always criticizing her? There's nothing wrong with that if true I feel that way about Cheetah, I'm just curious.
    I think I said that, at the end of my post, if you read the whole thing. If we're running with Homeric Circe, let's have Homeric Circe!

    Let's go further! Imagine a terrified Circe fleeing Olympian tyranny, with nowhere on Earth that she can hide. Imagine her pursued by demons, horrific monsters, giants...slipping into other dimensions, travelling across the universe, to bizarre, alien worlds! Imagine her, having lost everything, struggling to survive...building an incomparable knowledge of magic, along the way! Imagine the point at which, having mastered sorcery, beyond mortal comprehension, that she turns back toward Earth, ..determined to destroy it. Could the emergence of Wonder Woman and the Earth's celebration of Zeus's daughter be the thing that drew her back?

    I can imagine that being an Oh-Hades-naw moment for Homeric Circe...the end of running away! I can imagine her not caring how powerful or ready she was, at this point. Even if Wonder Woman isn't Zeus's daughter, she's the contracted muscle for Mount Olympus, and that's enough to fuel her outrage. This Circe is going to rip Diana apart, proton by proton, and decides the world that worships her ..must be destroyed.

    I have said many times, in many posts that, having seen Diana's struggle, ..I think we need to see Circe's. Circe has a GREAT story to be told, that is immediately relevant to Wonder Woman's mission, ..and it needn't have anything to do with the backstories of Wonder Woman, Hippolyta or the Amazons. I don't want to see this Circe retconned into Wonder Woman's origin, with a stunt that makes her Diana's childhood friend, a talking potted plant, a psychic KANGA ..or Hippolyta's doctor - the look-she-was-there-all-along thing...like Lookee. I don't think we need that. If some skilled writer gave post-Crisis, Homeric Circe a context, - a struggle that puts her in Diana's path - related to her classical story, I really think we would cheer her on.

    I would. What I won't cheer on is Diva-Joker wannabee. The WW comic and we, the fans, deserve better.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-07-2019 at 04:17 PM.
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  3. #843
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    What you're asking for is pretty much being done in Tynion's Justice League Dark.
    Last edited by Agent Z; 08-07-2019 at 05:25 PM.

  4. #844
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Yeah sorry, I didn't read everything. I always liked Circe but it wasn't until Christopher Priest gave her a more vivid and modern personality that she really became a favorite. So put me in the Diva-Joker category, she has layers that most other WW rogues don't and I think she's just fine the way she is.

  5. #845
    Extraordinary Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    Yeah sorry, I didn't read everything. I always liked Circe but it wasn't until Christopher Priest gave her a more vivid and modern personality that she really became a favorite. So put me in the Diva-Joker category, she has layers that most other WW rogues don't and I think she's just fine the way she is.
    Just curious, when did Priest write Circe?

  6. #846
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Just curious, when did Priest write Circe?
    Wonder Woman #89

    WW CIRCE 89.jpg

    And then again in Wonder Woman #138

    WW CIRCE 138.jpg

    The second one is also a really good Hippolyta story though the art in both leaves much to be desired.

  7. #847
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Walt Simonson's layered development of Marvel's Loki, in THOR, which has been followed up by some very talented writers, over the years, is what convinced me that Circe could be so much more, ..than a clown. Simonson gave Loki's villainy, context, ..and Circe hasn't had that kind of attention to her narrative. With Circe, as with Loki and Luthor, I think we need to see what went before...the struggle.

    In lieu of that, maybe some skilled writer can just rob the Queen of Fables, whom I know next to nothing about, ..but am hopelessly in LOVE with! She is so much weirder and creepier, than Circe, ..and her motive, while freaky, is so much clearer.

    Someone has certainly gone out of their way to make Circe look like QOF, on the cover of Justice League #14. Hope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    What you're asking for is pretty much being done in Tynion's Justice League Dark.
    Wasn't that 'witchmarked' business more about Hecate, than Circe? I'll be checking out #14.
    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-07-2019 at 11:22 PM.
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  8. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    The vilification Diana got for killing Max Lord was DC trying to have their cake and eat it too.
    I mean they had to do something. Making Wonder Woman a villainous character is just too interesting a concept to pass up.

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    I mean they had to do something. Making Wonder Woman a villainous character is just too interesting a concept to pass up.
    They failed at it because no one with common sense bought her as a villain the way they wrote it. Especially when what Superman and Batman did was far less forgivable and yet was forgotten about almost immediately.

  10. #850
    Astonishing Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    They failed at it because no one with common sense bought her as a villain the way they wrote it. Especially when what Superman and Batman did was far less forgivable and yet was forgotten about almost immediately.
    If they wanted her to be the bad guy they sure as heck shouldn’t have had Greg Rucka writing that story lol. I thought the Maxwell Lord story was his idea, but he planned on doing some follow up stories to handle the fallout that never happened because DC table dhim off the book?

  11. #851
    Mighty Member KangMiRae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    They failed at it because no one with common sense bought her as a villain the way they wrote it. Especially when what Superman and Batman did was far less forgivable and yet was forgotten about almost immediately.
    Good to know Cyclops and Wonder Woman, two of my favorite characters, couldn't have their public perception swayed by silly editorial ideas :P

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  12. #852
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    If they wanted her to be the bad guy they sure as heck shouldn’t have had Greg Rucka writing that story lol. I thought the Maxwell Lord story was his idea, but he planned on doing some follow up stories to handle the fallout that never happened because DC table dhim off the book?
    The Maxwell Lord incident was going to be the reason for Amazons Attack. The U.S. military had already amassed off the coast of Themyscira and were at odds with the Amazons because they wanted to get their hands on their secrets. Then Sacrifice would have happened and escalated the conflict. Even in the version that made it to print the Amazons were angry at what they felt was the mistreatment of their Princess.

  13. #853
    Incredible Member Gurz's Avatar
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    Wonder Woman should have more than one lover, she should build her harem Steve Travor, Batman, Superman etc... They should be all in her harem, she should make all of them her playthings...
    Last edited by Gurz; 08-09-2019 at 04:52 AM.
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  14. #854
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurz View Post
    Wonder Woman should have more than one lover, she should build her harem Steve Travor, Batman, Superman etc... They should be all in her harem, she should make all of them her playthings...
    No thank you, maybe you're thinking of She-Hulk. Jen is more of a party girl, it took Diana 70 years to get to third base.

  15. #855
    Mighty Member Tzigone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    No thank you, maybe you're thinking of She-Hulk. Jen is more of a party girl, it took Diana 70 years to get to third base.
    I wasn't fond of Diana as the "player" of the Amazons, myself. Especially since it made me think of Zeus, and I don't like her as the child of Zeus.
    Last edited by Tzigone; 08-09-2019 at 06:46 AM.

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