Wonder Woman Controversial Opinions Part 2

[Agent Z]

In a world like this, I can see why some find secret identities a hard sell for anyone other than Superman or the street vigilante types. Too many Americans would rather project themselves on a Kardashian rather than on someone that matters.

We're comparing Diana to a Kardashian now? Seriously?

[DrNewGod]

We're comparing Diana to a Kardashian now? Seriously?

No. We're stating that American aspirations have become more narcissistic over the last few of generations.

[Agent Z]

No. We're stating that American aspirations have become more narcissistic over the last few of generations.

That doesn't change the fact that superhero secret identities have some troubling implications or that Diana doesn't need one.

[DrNewGod]

That doesn't change the fact that superhero secret identities have some troubling implications or that Diana doesn't need one.

Need one? Probably not. Hurt by one? Probably not.

Superheroics as a whole have some troubling implications, ranging from vigilantism to fascism. I don't see where secret identities significantly up the problematic factor, but YMMV.

A secret ID does have the benefit of allowing commentary on more ordinary facets of life than a Loudly Out superhero is likely to get to experience.

[Guy_McNichts]

A thing about Diana, I think, is even if she didn't have powers or her superhero persona, she would still be an activist trying to improve the world. Like if he wasn't Superman, Clark strikes me as someone content to be a reporter. Maybe a volunteer firefighter or paramedic if he still felt obligated to help people.

If Diana wasn't Wonder Woman, and she still left Themyscira, I think she'd still do what she's already doing...only without punching monsters and evil gods.

So going through the trouble of setting up an completely different identity--with 9-to-5 job and disguise--just to have a life away from being Wonder Woman doesn't seem like something she'd bother with.

I also have to say one of the things that irks me about Diana have a secret identity is the sense she needs it because otherwise she "doesn't understand humanity." I get the notion that Diana, like real life people of wealth and privilege, might not have the same perspective of "ordinary" people, but too many writers run with that to a point where she comes across as overly aloof or outright alien when she's supposed to be very empathetic.

Further--don't know how controversial this opinion is--I think despite her fantastical origin and background, Diana is more down to earth and sensible than many of the other DC heroes she interacts with.
Think about that. Diana, the woman who regards violence as an undesirable outcome, exists in a world where its absurdly common for people to respond to trauma by dressing in elaborate costumes and engaging in city-wide brawls...but somehow she's the weirdo who doesn't understand humanity because she comes from a faraway island.

[Koriand'r]

A thing about Diana, I think, is even if she didn't have powers or her superhero persona, she would still be an activist trying to improve the world. Like if he wasn't Superman, Clark strikes me as someone content to be a reporter. Maybe a volunteer firefighter or paramedic if he still felt obligated to help people.

If Diana wasn't Wonder Woman, and she still left Themyscira, I think she'd still do what she's already doing...only without punching monsters and evil gods.

So going through the trouble of setting up an completely different identity--with 9-to-5 job and disguise--just to have a life away from being Wonder Woman doesn't seem like something she'd bother with.

I also have to say one of the things that irks me about Diana have a secret identity is the sense she needs it because otherwise she "doesn't understand humanity." I get the notion that Diana, like real life people of wealth and privilege, might not have the same perspective of "ordinary" people, but too many writers run with that to a point where she comes across as overly aloof or outright alien when she's supposed to be very empathetic.

Further--don't know how controversial this opinion is--I think despite her fantastical origin and background, Diana is more down to earth and sensible than many of the other DC heroes she interacts with.
Think about that. Diana, the woman who regards violence as an undesirable outcome, exists in a world where its absurdly common for people to respond to trauma by dressing in elaborate costumes and engaging in city-wide brawls...but somehow she's the weirdo who doesn't understand humanity because she comes from a faraway island.

It's not how she responds to them but how they respond to her. She's put on a perpetual pedestal because she's a celebrity, superhero, diplomat and that makes it hard for normal people to see her as one of them. She's always the rich lady who deigns to come to the soup kitchen to help out, with everyone there knowing she can leave whenever she wants and go home to her fabulous life.

[AmiMizuno]

I mean in a sense Diana would need to have Dian Prince to see what the average person goes to. She has been pampered her all life. When she gets to the outside world she is still pampered. Wouldn't there be a way for her to see the normal life in the man's world? this is why I feel like in paper only and given the tools. Diana should be a student at Holliday college. She can see how others live She is able to meet people at different backgrounds.

[marhawkman]

It's not how she responds to them but how they respond to her. She's put on a perpetual pedestal because she's a celebrity, superhero, diplomat and that makes it hard for normal people to see her as one of them. She's always the rich lady who deigns to come to the soup kitchen to help out, with everyone there knowing she can leave whenever she wants and go home to her fabulous life.

Does that require her to do anything but dress in baggy sweats before volunteering at the soup kitchen?

The problem with a Batman style secret identity is that it takes a LOT of time to maintain the illusion that you're actually LIVING the life of your alter-ego. An identity that you regularly borrow though? That doesn't take as much time.

[Agent Z]

It's not how she responds to them but how they respond to her. She's put on a perpetual pedestal because she's a celebrity, superhero, diplomat and that makes it hard for normal people to see her as one of them. She's always the rich lady who deigns to come to the soup kitchen to help out, with everyone there knowing she can leave whenever she wants and go home to her fabulous life.

Have you ever considered that this is their problem and not hers?

Why should Diana have to live a lie just because people refuse to see celebrities as people?

[Agent Z]

Need one? Probably not. Hurt by one? Probably not.

Superheroics as a whole have some troubling implications, ranging from vigilantism to fascism. I don't see where secret identities significantly up the problematic factor, but YMMV.

You don't see how anonymous vigilantes enforcing their view of justice with zero accountability makes an already troubling premise more problematic?

Superhero universes are basically KGB Russia terror states where any person you know could be a member of the secret police. But whereas the secret police at least answer to somebody superheroes are their own bosses.

A secret ID does have the benefit of allowing commentary on more ordinary facets of life than a Loudly Out superhero is likely to get to experience.

And yet this wasn't an issue for Diana in the three decades she went without a secret identity.

Meanwhile, Batman still has a secret identity and hardly interacts with anyone who isn't another superhero with his stories having less and less to do with ordinary situations. If a writer wants a character to have mundane stuff going on in their lives they will write it that way, secret identities or no.

[Koriand'r]

Does that require her to do anything but dress in baggy sweats before volunteering at the soup kitchen?

The problem with a Batman style secret identity is that it takes a LOT of time to maintain the illusion that you're actually LIVING the life of your alter-ego. An identity that you regularly borrow though? That doesn't take as much time.

Dressing down would be even more condescending and disingenuous when everyone knows you're the rich lady.

WW DP.jpg

One of the points of a secret identity for Diana is that it takes up a lot of time. That's time for her to approach her mission on another front, time for us to see her as a regular person and time for us to wait on her to turn into Wonder Woman.

[DrNewGod]

You don't see how anonymous vigilantes enforcing their view of justice with zero accountability makes an already troubling premise more problematic?

Superhero universes are basically KGB Russia terror states where any person you know could be a member of the secret police. But whereas the secret police at least answer to somebody superheroes are their own bosses.

So murderous criminal cartels brazenly operating in the open are better than serial kills stalking in the shadows?

Yeah, that's an extreme analogy. However, no more so than claiming there's some kind of great moral harm in a trope of a fantasy genre entertainment. As to the idea this has become problematic with the rise of the hacker, the secret identity came of age in a time where fascist and communist agitators amongst us were the bogey men of society, and when the KKK still held pretty large rallies in disguise.

[Agent Z]

So murderous criminal cartels brazenly operating in the open are better than serial kills stalking in the shadows?

Yeah, that's an extreme analogy. However, no more so than claiming there's some kind of great moral harm in a trope of a fantasy genre entertainment. As to the idea this has become problematic with the rise of the hacker, the secret identity came of age in a time where fascist and communist agitators amongst us were the bogey men of society, and when the KKK still held pretty large rallies in disguise.

This isn't the solid defense of the secret identity you think it is. Especially with that line about the KKK.

I also never mentioned anything about hackers.

So murderous criminal cartels brazenly operating in the open are better than serial kills stalking in the shadows?

Yeah, that's an extreme analogy. However, no more so than claiming there's some kind of great moral harm in a trope of a fantasy genre entertainment.

Also this is a strange take to have considering we are talking about a character whose existence is owed to a writer trying to tackle what he felt was a pressing social issue and whose stories are in a genre that has often been used to address real life concerns in one way or another.

[marhawkman]

Dressing down would be even more condescending and disingenuous when everyone knows you're the rich lady.

Ah, but that's the thing: Do they? I mean it kinda makes the entire secret identity concept pointless if you can't hide your identity.

[H-E-D]

In a world like this, I can see why some find secret identities a hard sell for anyone other than Superman or the street vigilante types. Too many Americans would rather project themselves on a Kardashian rather than on someone that matters.

I'll be real, that's not just America. Japan is like that too.