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  1. #1
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    Default is Empath a good guy or a bad guy ?

    can somebody help. I was wondering if Empath (Manuel de la Rocha) is good or bad ? I know he started of as one the hellions but after that I don't know ?


    bonus question: speacking of good and bad. why is joseph (magneto clone) a bad guy now ?

  2. #2
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    Empath is a creepy bad guy and Joseph was resurrected by Astra for evil doings.

  3. #3

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    Empath is generally a bad guy. Even when he's trying to be good, he's actually a bit of a creep. Most recently, in Fraction's Uncanny X-Men run, Empath was a straight-up bad guy, but he was serving Madelyne Pryor, so there's some wiggle room where it could be claimed he was basically controlled. Still, most of the time, he's a sociopathic jerk.

  4. #4
    Lick on, sweet prince. Sea Hound's Avatar
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    Bad guy mostly, and a genuinely creepy, chilling, cold one. I'd like to see him used again.
    Funny, that a character named "Empath" should be so arrogant, and unempathic.

    image.jpg
    "Self has no time for this."

  5. #5
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    I see well I thought empathy was being controlled by red queen... ok about joseph dose anybody think he could be redeemed ? I found this info... "Joseph returns at an anti-mutant rally killing all present and framing Magneto. It is revealed that Joseph is the true perpetrator of the crime when Erik asks

    Emma

    for help going into his mind through the "magnetosphere" (similar to cerebra but using electromagnetic impulses to make a map of people with his abilities). In his mind he finds that Joseph has returned, and he's "not alone".

    It was revealed that Astra had reconstituted Joseph after his "death", captured him and reimplanted the copy of Magneto's mind she had originally implanted within him, causing him to think like the former villainous Magneto. During a confrontation with Joseph and his cloned versions of the Brotherhood, Magneto was able to defeat his duplicate, and Joseph was taken into SHIELD custody."

  6. #6
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    New Mutants #26 Apr 1985
    "Legion" First full appearance of Legion.
    Tom Corsi and Sharon Friedlander become the victims of Moira MacTaggert's latest patient, David Haller.
    Moira asks for help from Xavier, who comes to Muir Isle alongside several New Mutants.
    David is the son of Xavier's one-time lover Gaby Haller,
    who asks Charles to help her son the way he once helped her.
    At the Massachusetts Academy,

    Emma Frost restricts the powers of her pupil, Empath,

    as punishment for what he did to Firestar.


    Script by Chris Claremont, art by Bill Sienkiewicz

  7. #7
    Fantastic Member mikelmcknight72's Avatar
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    He was initially portrayed as little more than simply the worst (morally speaking) of Emma's students. However, subsequent depictions have explored the character a bit more. Some factoids:

    * He was the son of a Castilian noble who had fallen on hard times, but was able to trace the family's roots to ancient Rome. This no doubt meant that Manuel was raised to believe that he and his family had been unfairly denied all that they deserved. Put another way, he was raised with a large sense of entitlement. Essentially, his parents really screwed him up. It doesn't excuse the bad things he has done, but it does tend to make me see him as a tragic villain rather than just a villain. Rising above one's upbringing his very difficult, and a rare thing.

    * During the now ret-conned/ignored story establishing that Nova Roma was filled with people whom Selene had kidnapped and brainwashed to believe they were part of a lost Roman city, Manuel kept the illusion going for everyone after it started to wear off. He did this because it was the first and only place he'd ever actually known happiness. I actually came away from the story with a bit of pity for the character. Imagine never truly knowing happiness, finding it, then learning it was built on a lie. Most people would be at least a little tempted to do as he did, even if they never actually would do as he did.

    * In the aftermath of M-Day, he ended up mentally enslaved by the Red Queen. All the bad things he did under her command weren't done of his own free will. He was essentially guiltless for them. His outcome was getting blinded by Pixie.

    * During Necrosha, after having his sight returned, he fought against Selene's forces rather than attempting to join her circle of power/influence.

    Is he still a bad guy? Probably, but not irrevocably so. I'd very much like to see any arc centered upon him involve his journey towards being a better person.

  8. #8
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikelmcknight72 View Post
    He was initially portrayed as little more than simply the worst (morally speaking) of Emma's students. However, subsequent depictions have explored the character a bit more. Some factoids:

    * He was the son of a Castilian noble who had fallen on hard times, but was able to trace the family's roots to ancient Rome. This no doubt meant that Manuel was raised to believe that he and his family had been unfairly denied all that they deserved. Put another way, he was raised with a large sense of entitlement. Essentially, his parents really screwed him up. It doesn't excuse the bad things he has done, but it does tend to make me see him as a tragic villain rather than just a villain. Rising above one's upbringing his very difficult, and a rare thing.

    * During the now ret-conned/ignored story establishing that Nova Roma was filled with people whom Selene had kidnapped and brainwashed to believe they were part of a lost Roman city, Manuel kept the illusion going for everyone after it started to wear off. He did this because it was the first and only place he'd ever actually known happiness. I actually came away from the story with a bit of pity for the character. Imagine never truly knowing happiness, finding it, then learning it was built on a lie. Most people would be at least a little tempted to do as he did, even if they never actually would do as he did.

    * In the aftermath of M-Day, he ended up mentally enslaved by the Red Queen. All the bad things he did under her command weren't done of his own free will. He was essentially guiltless for them. His outcome was getting blinded by Pixie.

    * During Necrosha, after having his sight returned, he fought against Selene's forces rather than attempting to join her circle of power/influence.

    Is he still a bad guy? Probably, but not irrevocably so. I'd very much like to see any arc centered upon him involve his journey towards being a better person.
    Yeah, I always liked Empath.

    After going out of his way to make Empath clearly the most vile of the Hellions, Claremont started on almost a bit of a redemption arc for him which unfortunately never went anywhere. I was actually starting to ship him and Magma at one point... though that clearly went the heck after that issue of New Warriors. Poor Empath has never been the same since.

  9. #9
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Empath is less "evil" and more "creepy or scummy".

    He's not a good person, but he's not irredeemable.

  10. #10
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    Empath is less "evil" and more "creepy or scummy".

    He's not a good person, but he's not irredeemable.
    Part of me sometimes wonders if a power like his doesn't almost inherently corrupt people. You sometimes have to wonder about even good guys with those sort of powers, like Star Fox.

    Not that it's an excuse for his behavior. But I think he sort of has to live with that temptation everyday of his life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XPac View Post
    Part of me sometimes wonders if a power like his doesn't almost inherently corrupt people. You sometimes have to wonder about even good guys with those sort of powers, like Star Fox.

    Not that it's an excuse for his behavior. But I think he sort of has to live with that temptation everyday of his life.


  12. #12
    Astonishing Member danielsan52's Avatar
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    He had a few good moments but returned to his sociopathic ways on Krakoa.

    I read some old NM comics today and came across this:

    11C69D37-AFEA-4378-8E89-8DA2E1191A52.jpg

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  15. #15
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    I haven't read enough past the 1980s to have a solid opinion. However, characters whose main schtick is altering others attitudes/opinions/perceptions tend to be jerks. Even Professor X (who I love).

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