Was the controversy with Akira Yoshida the cause of Betsy Braddock’s reversion?

[Triniking1234]

Really? My Ex-girlfriend is Japanese and She hated it. Buck Aw Hated it (He's Asian), an ddraws for Marvel, Marjorie Liu hated it, A few Asian friends I know hated it (they are mostly Chinese to be fair). But most of the non white comic nerds I know who actiely read are meh on her or despise it. So dunno where you got that one.


Also, everytime Psylocke was offered her own body back, it always came with Strings. She's tired of being people's puppets.

Liu hated it? Ok. It seems you only hang around people who share the same view as you. Most of the people I've conversed with who know about Betsy's back story don't really care cuz they know it's a comic book.

No, they shouldn't! Erasing her past to appease one group who prefer a half nekkid or semi nekkid Ninja chick is bad. That's what they did to the Major in Ghost in the Shell. It's appeasing some people to annoy others.



People want Kwannon back, because of how she was treated in the first place. She was an Asian character who was (Unnecessarily) added to a white character because some guy wanted to Draw Elektra and couldn't and another guy didn't read the other guys issues. Then with a history of Colonialism in Asian Countries where the Asian tropes ar eloved, but not the asian, the Asian woman was put in the (Ordinary) White Woman's body, then killed off, because at the time there was no internet as it is today (Except Bulletin Boards online) for people to discuss the ickiness of the whole Situation, even though using Google groups you can find some.

So some want her back because she was never turly given a chance to succeed or fail as a character. Then we got a white woman in an Asian form because they loved the Asian tropes, but not the Asian.

The Ghost in the Shell is a bad example since in Masamune Shirow's original work the Major's body is generic model which doesn't resemble her original which helped hide her identity.

Who are these people who want Kwannon back? Is this a case of Marvel bending over to the minority again? Why should they change Betsy's iconic look and put her through more trauma just to please the mildly offended and some white woman fetishists.

Betsy's transformation into an Asian exterior was the work of a man of Asian descent which you failed to mention. The co-conspirator, Mr. Claremont, said that the only response they got was that people liked the art.

Kwannon was never given the chance to succeed or fail? I guess you weren't reading the books back then. She was an Asian character created by a white dude to clean up some imaginary mess and she went away cuz she failed to catch on.

[Celestialbodies]

Yes, and yes it helps to explained how rushed and obvious it all is, and it's potentially happening in the fourth issue of a crossover about Wolverine.

[Sam Robards, Comic Fan]

On the primary topic, I think reverting Psylocke to her British body is kinda dumb at this point, as she's been in the Japanese body FAR longer than she was in her British body. Switching her back just reeks of nostalgia pandering for '80s Claremont fans. So, no, I don't think Cebulski had anything to do with it.

As for Cebulski and the Akira "controversy," it's all a bunch of crap. The entire point of a pseudonym is so that your identity as a writer is concealed, and he never should have apologized for it.

Using a foreign name as a pseudonym doesn't mean that Cebulski was appropriating anything: he just seems to be a fan of Japanese culture and wanted to use that as a fake name. That's it. If were appropriation, everyone on the internet that uses a foreign (to them) handle for message boards, gaming consoles, etc. would automatically be guilty of the same, which is a completely idiotic notion.

Benjamin Franklin wrote a series of letters under the pseudonym Silence Dogood, a middle-aged widow: so was Franklin appropriating middle-aged female culture? No, it wasn't. And neither was Cebulski.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

On the primary topic, I think reverting Psylocke to her British body is kinda dumb at this point, as she's been in the Japanese body FAR longer than she was in her British body. Switching her back just reeks of nostalgia pandering for '80s Claremont fans. So, no, I don't think Cebulski had anything to do with it.

As for Cebulski and the Akira "controversy," it's all a bunch of crap. The entire point of a pseudonym is so that your identity as a writer is concealed, and he never should have apologized for it.

Using a foreign name as a pseudonym doesn't mean that Cebulski was appropriating anything: he just seems to be a fan of Japanese culture and wanted to use that as a fake name. That's it. If were appropriation, everyone on the internet that uses a foreign (to them) handle for message boards, gaming consoles, etc. would automatically be guilty of the same, which is a completely idiotic notion.

Benjamin Franklin wrote a series of letters under the pseudonym Silence Dogood, a middle-aged widow: so was Franklin appropriating middle-aged female culture? No, it wasn't. And neither was Cebulski.

Women used male names to get published Karen Blixin was published as Isak Dinesin. Regardless of race/gender people go through the same **** in life. Problems are problems and they don't care what color, sex, income, or orientation you are life is difficult. You can also identify with a character that looks nothing like you because of their circumstances.

[WhiteQueenEmmaFrost]

this is getting old.

Double post.

[Scott Taylor]

Pretty sure Marvel knew about the pseudonym when they hired him. This could be a cultural related thing, though. Always hated the ninja development because it was saying (to me) that it took the mind of a prim English societal girl to make an Asian into a superhero. Bad message.

[Devaishwarya]

Meh...I don't care at all for this gross speculation.

I loved English Betsy.
I loved Asian Betsy.
I could love New Betsy...if the writer does a great job with her.

It's comics, and Suspension of Disbelief is an absolute necessary part that.

[Psyknight]

Personally, Psylocke going back to her old body is not a good thing or a bad thing. It’s just a thing. I’m not that optimistic about how she’s going to be handled in the near future, but that’s just from a lack of confidence in Marvel, not out of any dislike for either of her bodies.

[JudicatorPrime]

You know, this whole thing is fixed in 4 easy steps:

1. Revert Betsy back to her original appearance, powers, costume, and paraphernalia (or lack thereof). Sorry, no, she doesn't get ninja skills, since we don't want to wage another war about cultural appropriation here.
2. Quietly let Betsy fade into comic book limbo.
3. Keep Kwannon dead/limbo. If representation is a concern, there are PLENTY of existing Asian X-Men that Marvel can use.
4. Introduce Asajj Ventress into X-Men lore with her dual sabers, dark magic and Jedi skills, which in theory easily parallel -- if not surpass -- telepath/telekinetic and ninjutsu skills. Voila, problem solved. In six months or less no one will remember that there was ever a Psylocke debate at all.

[Wiccan]

You know, this whole thing is fixed in 4 easy steps:

1. Revert Betsy back to her original appearance, powers, costume, and paraphernalia (or lack thereof). Sorry, no, she doesn't get ninja skills, since we don't want to wage another war about cultural appropriation here.
2. Quietly let Betsy fade into comic book limbo.
3. Keep Kwannon dead/limbo. If representation is a concern, there are PLENTY of existing Asian X-Men that Marvel can use.
4. Introduce Asajj Ventress into X-Men lore with her dual sabers, dark magic and Jedi skills, which in theory easily parallel -- if not surpass -- telepath/telekinetic and ninjutsu skills. Voila, problem solved. In six months or less no one will remember that there was ever a Psylocke debate at all.

No one's gonna be mad over cultural appropriation just because she's a ninja. I mean, I'm sure someone will, but it won't be as popular as of a opinion cause it's not comparable to her literally living on someone's body. Keep her as a ninja so she stands out from other TPs.

[Psyknight]

No one's gonna be mad over cultural appropriation just because she's a ninja. I mean, I'm sure someone will, but it won't be as popular as of a opinion cause it's not comparable to her literally living on someone's body. Keep her as a ninja so she stands out from other TPs.

Agreed and I really do think she’s going to stay a ninja. That is something far more iconic to the character and really distinguished her from other psychics.

[Devaishwarya]

Disdouble-postin'shytisannoyin'AF!

[Tazirai]

Nothing sticks in comics. Everything gets undone sooner or later.

Not this. It doesn't matter how popular something is with certain people. What's right is right and times change.

Somethings do stick in comics. Things can change due to changing overall society and culture.

Exactly. Somethings change because society as a whole evolves. Hell there are still people refusing to vote for an Anti_Lynching bill, and when it's brought up, people are like. I thought we did that already, or. We have other laws in place to counteract it.

And it makes people upset. So things need to change.

Asian Psylocke is incredibly popular, vastly more than her Marvel UK or even Outback versions. The only way I see this working for Marvel is if Kwannon comes back to fill the Asian psychic ninja in a bikini role while Betsy returns to her precog butterfly paleness.

Just how popular is Psylocke really?
Using this forum as a point of view. Look at her thread in regards to other threads. Hell even X-23's thread surpasses Psylockes. So really just how popular outside of a few video games, a film where she was background filler, and another where she barely spoke.

Liu hated it? Ok. It seems you only hang around people who share the same view as you. Most of the people I've conversed with who know about Betsy's back story don't really care cuz they know it's a comic book.

The Ghost in the Shell is a bad example since in Masamune Shirow's original work the Major's body is generic model which doesn't resemble her original which helped hide her identity.

Who are these people who want Kwannon back? Is this a case of Marvel bending over to the minority again? Why should they change Betsy's iconic look and put her through more trauma just to please the mildly offended and some white woman fetishists.

Betsy's transformation into an Asian exterior was the work of a man of Asian descent which you failed to mention. The co-conspirator, Mr. Claremont, said that the only response they got was that people liked the art.

Kwannon was never given the chance to succeed or fail? I guess you weren't reading the books back then. She was an Asian character created by a white dude to clean up some imaginary mess and she went away cuz she failed to catch on.

I only met Buck Aw two weeks ago when we hosted a panel together on diversity, I did the photography.
Marjorie Liu I have never met.

Fixing a problematic issue in todays world is always gonna make some upset, and not others.

Me and you just fit in different camps.

You know, this whole thing is fixed in 4 easy steps:

1. Revert Betsy back to her original appearance, powers, costume, and paraphernalia (or lack thereof). Sorry, no, she doesn't get ninja skills, since we don't want to wage another war about cultural appropriation here.
2. Quietly let Betsy fade into comic book limbo.
3. Keep Kwannon dead/limbo. If representation is a concern, there are PLENTY of existing Asian X-Men that Marvel can use.
4. Introduce Asajj Ventress into X-Men lore with her dual sabers, dark magic and Jedi skills, which in theory easily parallel -- if not surpass -- telepath/telekinetic and ninjutsu skills. Voila, problem solved. In six months or less no one will remember that there was ever a Psylocke debate at all.

Hear Hear for Asajj

Agreed and I really do think she’s going to stay a ninja. That is something far more iconic to the character and really distinguished her from other psychics.

Yeah it's not like she could never learn any other form of fighting. In Comics being a ninja is kinda passe' She can add more skills to her set outside of Ninjutsu.

[WeirdSpider]

What's right is right and times change.

What's right is a matter of opinion.
And yes times do change. Right now we live in a time of extreme political correctness where people get outraged at the drop of a hat. But this won't last. People are all ready getting sick of all this political correctness.

[TurboTaj]

I still don't see why it's a big deal since Asian X-Men fans don't care.

This is accurate IMO. I was fine with her being fully asian but if there are other asians who are uncomfortable with it, I think most of us would agree that making Psylocke officially physically mixed race would be acceptable.