Was the controversy with Akira Yoshida the cause of Betsy Braddock’s reversion?

[Drey]

I don't think Marvel will go as far as to reset her to the way she was right up to walking through the Siege Perilous. Purple haired, psychic ninja is her niche.

Taz - Oh Psylocke can definitely learn new skills that aren't related to ninjutsu. AoA Sabretooth had a hand in training her in whatever form of combat he knows.

[Killerbee911]

As for Cebulski and the Akira "controversy," it's all a bunch of crap. The entire point of a pseudonym is so that your identity as a writer is concealed, and he never should have apologized for it.

Using a foreign name as a pseudonym doesn't mean that Cebulski was appropriating anything: he just seems to be a fan of Japanese culture and wanted to use that as a fake name. That's it. If were appropriation, everyone on the internet that uses a foreign (to them) handle for message boards, gaming consoles, etc. would automatically be guilty of the same, which is a completely idiotic notion.

Benjamin Franklin wrote a series of letters under the pseudonym Silence Dogood, a middle-aged widow: so was Franklin appropriating middle-aged female culture? No, it wasn't. And neither was Cebulski.

Women used male names to get published Karen Blixin was published as Isak Dinesin. Regardless of race/gender people go through the same **** in life. Problems are problems and they don't care what color, sex, income, or orientation you are life is difficult. You can also identify with a character that looks nothing like you because of their circumstances.

So you don't see the difference in woman using a man name simple so her work isn't judged on being on woman and someone writing under pseudonym and using that pseudonym to gain cache as writer of that gender or race. CB didn't get in trouble for writing under a fake name. He got in trouble for "Hey I am Asian writer, My experiences is authentic to being Asian". Nobody has problems with writing anonymous ,good writing isn't gender or race specific and changing your name can help escape assumed prejudices that is fine but their issue with Man writing as woman and using that perspective that she is woman to give authenticity as a woman and CB got in trouble for doing that. JK Rowling wrote crime fiction as Robert Galbraith, Stephen King wrote as Richard Bachman and they had their reason for doing so it is industry practice.CB was doing interviews as Asian man and Marvel was using him as showing their diversity in hiring and work.

[JudicatorPrime]

No one's gonna be mad over cultural appropriation just because she's a ninja. I mean, I'm sure someone will, but it won't be as popular as of a opinion cause it's not comparable to her literally living on someone's body. Keep her as a ninja so she stands out from other TPs.

Wanna bet? Someone will complain. Someone always complains. Nope, we're taking no chances. We're investing lots of R&D into rebuilding our $6 Million Bionic Betsy, er, changing her back. Reverted Betsy can have Excalibur, or the Black Knight's Ebony Blade -- or both! And butterfly eyes! Lots of butterfly eyes!!!! Maybe give her kills so that she becomes the all new Lady of the Lake. But no more ninja anything. We're going to keep her entrenched in her native traditions and love it!! :p :p :p :p (You just know this will be their mindset when they redesign her.)

[ChildOfTheAtom]

So you don't see the difference in woman using a man name simple so her work isn't judged on being on woman and someone writing under pseudonym and using that pseudonym to gain cache as writer of that gender or race. CB didn't get in trouble for writing under a fake name. He got in trouble for "Hey I am Asian writer, My experiences is authentic to being Asian". Nobody has problems with writing anonymous ,good writing isn't gender or race specific and changing your name can help escape assumed prejudices that is fine but their issue with Man writing as woman and using that perspective that she is woman to give authenticity as a woman and CB got in trouble for doing that. JK Rowling wrote crime fiction as Robert Galbraith, Stephen King wrote as Richard Bachman and they had their reason for doing so it is industry practice.CB was doing interviews as Asian man and Marvel was using him as showing their diversity in hiring and work.

Yeah you said it better than I could. Them dudes was being ignorant

[WebLurker]

I'm pretty sure it will not get reversed, not with 21st century cultural sensibilities. All Marvel has to do is use the Asian female characters they have. If they want an Asian woman telepathic warrior just give Karma fighting lessons.

It won't. Once this is done it's pretty, much done. Why make her white again and fix her ickiness, only to piss off Asian fans, and non asian fans with it. Some here hate the fact they are retreading it anyway, and in a way I do too. But this time It's going to stick. The last few times were attempts, and aborted because of events or editorial plans.

Marvel will do what they will do. My point is that I think the character has become too connected to the Asian appearance for anything else to take hold and supplant it. (In other words, the default Psylocke will "always" be the "Asian" one in the impractical purple leotard.)

[Celestialbodies]

What's right is a matter of opinion.
And yes times do change. Right now we live in a time of extreme political correctness where people get outraged at the drop of a hat. But this won't last. People are all ready getting sick of all this political correctness.

Can I just ask the question, in what decade and which continent has any part of this world EVER been "PC" people have literally had to fight for every right they were given since the beginning of man. I feel like what's the excuse is "I'm used to addressing or treating people a specific way, and want to be free from the consequences of both my actions and what I say". The only time I've personally heard this argument is by conservatives when they've said or done something offensive and are called out for said incident.


I'm personally ambivalent towards the change but if people are outraged, how can you blame them when for decades a white woman has been masquerading as an Asian woman? It's like if people are going to find a soapbox to stand on this is as good as any.

[Kurolegacy]

Can I just ask the question, in what decade and which continent has any part of this world EVER been "PC" people have literally had to fight for every right they were given since the beginning of man. I feel like what's the excuse is "I'm used to addressing or treating people a specific way, and want to be free from the consequences of both my actions and what I say". The only time I've personally heard this argument is by conservatives when they've said or done something offensive and are called out for said incident.


I'm personally ambivalent towards the change but if people are outraged, how can you blame them when for decades a white woman has been masquerading as an Asian woman? It's like if people are going to find a soapbox to stand on this is as good as any.

Masquerade is a pretty strong word. You say it as though Betsy went full on Wolverine with changing her lifestyle while pretending to be another race. The ethnicity of her body changed but she retained her British culture. Hell even her way of speaking retained her British dialect.

[WeirdSpider]

Can I just ask the question, in what decade and which continent has any part of this world EVER been "PC"

Now in the 2010's.
People nowadays are walking on eggshells afraid to speak their minds cause people might take what they say the wrong way and be called racist.
Political correctness is taking away our free speech.

but if people are outraged, how can you blame them when for decades a white woman has been masquerading as an Asian woman? It's like if people are going to find a soapbox to stand on this is as good as any.

If people were really outraged, the bodyswap would have been undone ages ago.

[Celestialbodies]

Masquerade is a pretty strong word. You say it as though Betsy went full on Wolverine with changing her lifestyle while pretending to be another race. The ethnicity of her body changed but she retained her British culture. Hell even her way of speaking retained her British dialect.

That's not at all what I meant, but definitely what was done, for no reasons other than CC thought it would be cool, which is ironic given the visual medium of comics. He could have redesigned Betsy to look exactly how she did after the change without a body swap. Who'd have really cared if Betsy now had darker hair and a more risque look? Especially, when she was a former model and dyed her hair purple anyways.

But the larger issue is Emma is more consistently written as retaining faux British culture than Betsy has since the swap. Very rarely do writers remember, if they aren't mistakenly writing her as actually Asian. That and for most of the 90's she was just used in the role as the exotic, action girl, who could pose but offered little to the overall narrative.

Now in the 2010's.
People nowadays are walking on eggshells afraid to speak their minds cause people might take what they say the wrong way and be called racist.
Political correctness is taking away our free speech.


If people were really outraged, the bodyswap would have been undone ages ago.

Two things one you are not prohibited from saying whatever you want, but by that same token you should be ready and open to any consequences that accompany your choice of free speech. Second that's also not true, how many literal things in this world remain stagnant or the same just out of nostalgia's sake but are later changed because times or opinions change, that and CC has tried multiple times to reverse it.

Again, I have my own reservations about the change but I at least attempt to understand how others might/could find the whole thing offensive. I also think way too often people are nonchalant or casual about issues that affect others until those same issues or lesser issues start to infect their own way of life.

[Selene]

That's not at all what I meant, but definitely what was done, for no reasons other than CC thought it would be cool, which is ironic given the visual medium of comics. He could have redesigned Betsy to look exactly how she did after the change without a body swap. Who'd have really cared if Betsy now had darker hair and a more risque look? Especially, when she was a former model and dyed her hair purple anyways.

But the larger issue is Emma is more consistently written as retaining faux British culture than Betsy has since the swap. Very rarely do writers remember, if they aren't mistakenly writing her as actually Asian. That and for most of the 90's she was just used in the role as the exotic, action girl, who could pose but offered little to the overall narrative.

Yeah,because Emma has been way more pushed than Psylocke since Morrison.


Nearly every writer has reminded the readers one way or another that Psylocke is of English stock and I can't pinpoint a single one that has written her as actually Asian as you say.

[Tendrin]

I have pretty mixed feelings about the whole thing.

I don't think a body swap which also includes a race swap is /inherently/ problematic in and of itself as a comic book storyline or event in a particular character's life.

However, combined with the fetishization/exoticism/lack of other representation/her use AS an example of representation/her ninjaness,... I am less than comfortable with /how/ the character is seen and used, especially with the treatment of Asian women in comics to begin with.

[Wolverine12]

Let's not get too heated about this please. As I've said many times we are talking about comics here, works of fiction. This is a sensitive subject for some obviously so please respect that, on the same hand lets not equate a fictional impossibility with the same level of urgency as real world imperfections.

On a side note I've noticed a lot of negative generalizations about "conservatives" on the board recently, especially in this thread, whether it be in posts or in signatures. Please stop that immediately. Gross generalizations and over simplifications never strengthen an argument and certainly don't have a place here.

[Tazirai]

What's right is a matter of opinion.
And yes times do change. Right now we live in a time of extreme political correctness where people get outraged at the drop of a hat. But this won't last. People are all ready getting sick of all this political correctness.

Political Correctness doesn't mean what you think it means. When other folks call People PC or SJW, what they are saying is " I like the way things are, stop trying to change it to include yourself."

Are people over sensitive? It's been that way since forever. People being over sensitive led to the Witch Trials all over the world. Because people they though were "Witches" Weren't being PC, meaning those people didn't follow the common/Status Quo belief of that civilization or Government.

PC isn' just people being sensitove over nothing.

[Tazirai]

Masquerade is a pretty strong word. You say it as though Betsy went full on Wolverine with changing her lifestyle while pretending to be another race. The ethnicity of her body changed but she retained her British culture. Hell even her way of speaking retained her British dialect.

How many languages do you speak? I'm not trying to pick a fight. I speak four. Japanese, Spanish, English (American/UK), and French.
When I speak, I speak as a native. You're dialect isn't based on race on ethnicity. It's literally based on what your surroundings are, and how your mind trains your mouth.

I live din Japan for 6 years, if you heard me speak Japanese over the phone, you'd think I was a native. I'm a big mixed race black guy from West Philly. But i grew up traveling and relating to different cultures. I speak Southern Giche. The Jawn from Philly. Yoko-ham (Yokohama dialect.), etc.

But when Psylocke was portrayed, she was always surrounded by asian motifs, which wasn't her upbringing. You usually represent the upbringing of your birth with items representing that. You incorporate other things to show your growth.

Here are the countries i've been to or lived in. Germany, England, France, Italy, Mexico, Japan, Peru. As you explore and learn, and are curious about the cultures you bring home mementos, but you'd don't normally full stop become that culture. You add it to yours. That's not cultural appropriation.

Cultural Appropriation is Rachel Dolizale lol.

[TurboTaj]

How many languages do you speak? I'm not trying to pick a fight. I speak four. Japanese, Spanish, English (American/UK), and French.
When I speak, I speak as a native. You're dialect isn't based on race on ethnicity. It's literally based on what your surroundings are, and how your mind trains your mouth.

I live din Japan for 6 years, if you heard me speak Japanese over the phone, you'd think I was a native. I'm a big mixed race black guy from West Philly. But i grew up traveling and relating to different cultures. I speak Southern Giche. The Jawn from Philly. Yoko-ham (Yokohama dialect.), etc.

But when Psylocke was portrayed, she was always surrounded by asian motifs, which wasn't her upbringing. You usually represent the upbringing of your birth with items representing that. You incorporate other things to show your growth.

Here are the countries i've been to or lived in. Germany, England, France, Italy, Mexico, Japan, Peru. As you explore and learn, and are curious about the cultures you bring home mementos, but you'd don't normally full stop become that culture. You add it to yours. That's not cultural appropriation.

Cultural Appropriation is Rachel Dolizale lol.

I'm genuinely curious about your opinion based on the bolded section.

What would be your position about an asian person who was raised by a white family in the UK only speaking English who later in life surrounded themselves with "asian things"? (I couldn't think of a better phrase.) That person was not raised in an asian culture and does not speak the language. However, I assume it would be fair to say that person is simply connecting with the culture associated with their race/ethnicity? If that is an agreed position we can reach, then would Psylocke also not simply be connecting with the culture associated with her asian body?

And it would differ from Rachel Dolezal because Psylocke was actually physically asian while Rachel Dolezal was pretending to be black.