Who shall replace Psylocke as the PREMIERE Female Asian X-man?

[Killerbee911]

She never got any memories from Kwannon,merely bits and pieces of her personality,of which she was purged once she passed away.

Kwannon had been brain-dead,her mind basically a blank state,after falling off a cliff well before the body swap.The Legacy Virus somehow enhanced her telepathy to the extent that it repaired the damage her brain had suffered,thus restoring her memories.There's irony for you.

But it was never addressed whether Kwannon had gotten any memories from Betsy.

Ugh that is so disappointing I didn't remember that they had this dope complex story and they go "nah" let just give her the ninja stuff and the body. Psylocke having to deal with memories and life that aren't hers is amazing set up. I kinda realize for me now imo what was missing from Psylocke life. Psylocke having to interact with Kwannon Family(friends) and maybe that family over time growing to accept her as family is interesting angle. Well opportunity missed I think giving Psylocke some of those memories would give her that connection to other half of her and at least for me seem less like a British woman inhabiting a asian womens body. Of course hindsight is 20/20 they could have handle this story so much better.

[TurboTaj]

Everything about kwannon MENTALLY is no longer in Psylocke AT ALL!
Psylocke isn't and never has been Asian outside of looks. Also, She's comfortably B-list.
She might be "Marketable" but outside of serious comic readers and movie watchers if you put a Yellow Coated Jubilee next to half Naked Psylocke, who do you think the average person would know?

I actually 100% think it is Psylocke. But the people I surround myself with probably heavily skew my opinion on this... I love playing fighting games and Psylocke has been part of many iconic games (and fighting games specifically).

And I suppose we should agree to disagree on the argument about whether Psylocke is asian. To me... if you live in an asian body and deal with the rest of the world treating you as an asian... I say that makes you asian. (Different from Rachel Dolezal who is NOT living in a black body even if she wants to be and the rest of the world initially treated her as such.) The fact that she wasn't "raised" asian means nothing to me because asians can be raised in all sorts of ways. Being raised by a white family doesn't suddenly make you not asian. But I would agree that the comics never really delved into exploring how it is for someone who previously experienced life as a white woman now having to face what it is like living life as an asian woman. But again, I find that just to be lazy writing rather than an inherent flaw in the character.

Ugh that is so disappointing I didn't remember that they had this dope complex story and they go "nah" let just give her the ninja stuff and the body. Psylocke having to deal with memories and life that aren't hers is amazing set up. I kinda realize for me now imo what was missing from Psylocke life. Psylocke having to interact with Kwannon Family(friends) and maybe that family over time growing to accept her as family is interesting angle. Well opportunity missed I think giving Psylocke some of those memories would give her that connection to other half of her and at least for me seem less like a British woman inhabiting a asian womens body. Of course hindsight is 20/20 they could have handle this story so much better.

I totally agree!!! Finally some common ground There's so much rich story opportunity that simply is not utilized in a way that can keep her (at least half) asian while addressing the concerns people have about a white woman inhabiting an asian body.

[butterflykyss]

If Not Kwannon. Yukio needs to come back (fully healed and no wheelchair) and become Storm's lover or Tyger Tiger needs to resurface out of no where and be besties with Emma as they take over the world.

ororo is currently with tchalla so there goes your first option.

and I know it's not popular but I like psylocke in revanche body better than British betsy. her and her tired armor should never return...

however to answer the opt question jubes is fine but it not her sunfire

[Killerbee911]

I actually 100% think it is Psylocke. But the people I surround myself with probably heavily skew my opinion on this... I love playing fighting games and Psylocke has been part of many iconic games (and fighting games specifically).

And I suppose we should agree to disagree on the argument about whether Psylocke is asian. To me... if you live in an asian body and deal with the rest of the world treating you as an asian... I say that makes you asian. (Different from Rachel Dolezal who is NOT living in a black body even if she wants to be and the rest of the world initially treated her as such.) The fact that she wasn't "raised" asian means nothing to me because asians can be raised in all sorts of ways. Being raised by a white family doesn't suddenly make you not asian. But I would agree that the comics never really delved into exploring how it is for someone who previously experienced life as a white woman now having to face what it is like living life as an asian woman. But again, I find that just to be lazy writing rather than an inherent flaw in the character.



I totally agree!!! Finally some common ground There's so much rich story opportunity that simply is not utilized in a way that can keep her (at least half) asian while addressing the concerns people have about a white woman inhabiting an asian body.

Doesn't it become a inherent flaw with character if they never touch it though? How many years has Psylocke been in her asian body? In talking about this I learned they didn't even give her Kwannon memories she just got the ninja stuff alone. Looking at it objectively you can see they just want her to have the ninja stuff and that looks was all that was in important to them or anyone over the years.

There was always common ground my initial reaction was to retcon Psylocke mixed from the jump, I have always understood that Psylocke was important representation to someone (even though I think how Psylocke has been developed she hasn't been good asian representation) .We only disagreed on the method of repair and in your posts have made a good case that pretty much convince me that she could have been kept the same and flesh out more. In talking about this Marvel is missing a very good story on what makes you ,well you. If the writers made effort to discuss this they wouldn't need to change her because you are right if you are in Asian body and the world sees you as Asian you are that. I can see frustration of someone who is big fan of her because they lined up the story well they made Psylocke/Kwannon mixed together which more than mind swap and drop the execution and from watching Alter Carbon they are so many themes and stories they could done. They could have covered more of her struggling to know who she really is how she is stuck between two worlds and not really being either. In thinking about it now the solution is rather simple if had done "A Last Samurai" "Avatar" or "Dancing with Wolves" and tell a story where an outsider ingrains themselves in group that they aren't a part of they wouldn't have been a need for a change. Once the people in the story accept them as one them the audience does the same thing. I think that is why some of us didn't view Psylocke as asian she always felt to me like British white woman in Asian skin I never read the story that made me think differently.

[Selene]

Ugh that is so disappointing I didn't remember that they had this dope complex story and they go "nah" let just give her the ninja stuff and the body. Psylocke having to deal with memories and life that aren't hers is amazing set up. I kinda realize for me now imo what was missing from Psylocke life. Psylocke having to interact with Kwannon Family(friends) and maybe that family over time growing to accept her as family is interesting angle. Well opportunity missed I think giving Psylocke some of those memories would give her that connection to other half of her and at least for me seem less like a British woman inhabiting a asian womens body. Of course hindsight is 20/20 they could have handle this story so much better.

You make a compelling case here,but then again maintaining Kwannon's influence on Psylocke would prompt the anti-Asian Psylocke protesters to argue Kwannon had replaced Elisabeth even on a cultural level.Some would just find it creepy like the time Carol had taken over Rogue's body and began living her normal life.

And more importantly,a deeply personal story would require a Psylocke solo book. :/

[TurboTaj]

Doesn't it become a inherent flaw with character if they never touch it though? How many years has Psylocke been in her asian body? In talking about this I learned they didn't even give her Kwannon memories she just got the ninja stuff alone. Looking at it objectively you can see they just want her to have the ninja stuff and that looks was all that was in important to them or anyone over the years.

There was always common ground my initial reaction was to retcon Psylocke mixed from the jump, I have always understood that Psylocke was important representation to someone (even though I think how Psylocke has been developed she hasn't been good asian representation) .We only disagreed on the method of repair and in your posts have made a good case that pretty much convince me that she could have been kept the same and flesh out more. In talking about this Marvel is missing a very good story on what makes you ,well you. If the writers made effort to discuss this they wouldn't need to change her because you are right if you are in Asian body and the world sees you as Asian you are that. I can see frustration of someone who is big fan of her because they lined up the story well they made Psylocke/Kwannon mixed together which more than mind swap and drop the execution and from watching Alter Carbon they are so many themes and stories they could done. They could have covered more of her struggling to know who she really is how she is stuck between two worlds and not really being either. In thinking about it now the solution is rather simple if had done "A Last Samurai" "Avatar" or "Dancing with Wolves" and tell a story where an outsider ingrains themselves in group that they aren't a part of they wouldn't have been a need for a change. Once the people in the story accept them as one them the audience does the same thing. I think that is why some of us didn't view Psylocke as asian she always felt to me like British white woman in Asian skin I never read the story that made me think differently.

My apologies for making an assumption that we did not previously share common ground.

In regards to your bolded question... its a good and fair question. I think it kind of depends on how you view the medium. If you are solely looking at whats on the page then yes I can see how it would become a problem inherent with the character. However, I think at least for myself that recognizing that this is really a byproduct of problematic writing/art makes me not really put the blame on the character but instead on the creative team if that makes any sense. This is a somewhat sarcastic example, but I don't blame Storm as a character for being totally un-creative with her use of powers... I blame bad writing for turning her into Lightning Lass. I can understand the position of those who disagree though.

I do also understand the criticism that Psylocke "embracing her asian side" has really only been superficial and stereotypical (oh wow she has asian looking stuff... neat.) It's been another missed opportunity for her to realize what it means to live as an asian in comparison to her previous experience as a white woman. *sigh* At least I know its not Psylocke being singled out with this kind of shoddy storytelling... Must be a company policy

[Killerbee911]

You make a compelling case here,but then again maintaining Kwannon's influence on Psylocke would prompt the anti-Asian Psylocke protesters to argue Kwannon had replaced Elisabeth even on a cultural level.Some would just find it creepy like the time Carol had taken over Rogue's body and began living her normal life.

And more importantly,a deeply personal story would require a Psylocke solo book. :/

Well Psylocke should have a solo book between being a spy,model and xman and with Hand, Otherworld and MI6/Strike/Shield.She could hold a book imo

[CRaymond]

She could hold a book imo

I agree. She’s probably the most “globally-oriented” of the X-Men, due to her previous careers, connections, and potential. I DON’T think she’s an Avenger-class superhero though... I see her more as a SHIELD flagship operative.

[danielsan52]

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Nia would be awesome.

[danielsan52]

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Nia would be awesome.

[L.R Johansson]

I have mixed feelings. I appreciate that people are trying to keep the asian representation but it also suggests that people are only fans of Psylocke because of her asian appearance (and yes I do acknowledge you can make similar arguments in the reverse as to why people oppose Psylocke going back to being white). Thereby belittling people's affection for the character as only being skin-deep. It also kind of suggests that we're interchangeable as asians and that our personalities and characters are secondary to our physical exteriors. That's my gut reaction to it at least.

What are your thoughts about making Psylocke be biracial then? I believe they've already done a mind-merge between Betsy and Kwannon so you can extend that out to the physical as well (plus it would basically make no difference in how she is drawn anyways since half the time artists draw her looking asian and half the time she still looks white ). It addresses the concerns people have about a white woman taking over an asian body while still acknowledging and retaining her iconic appearance and not whitewashing the Kwannon side of her post-merge identity. I always connected with Psylocke as a figure for people with complex racial, ethnic and cultural backgrounds so expanding on that and making her physically biracial seems to make sense to me. Her struggle (mainly outside comics... no writer really seems to have noticed this potential narrative with the character) with others trying to place her in a box to make her identity easier to understand or seem more acceptable hits close to home which is why I have such strong feelings about this.

Well, I can only speak for myself personally, but even though I started reading Psylocke only from Uncanny X-men #256, I do have an affinity for the character beyond the ninja-stuff. (my reading of X-men started out a bit odd, since I first read OLD local reprints of Claremonts UNX and NM, where Betsy happened to not be present, got hooked, and then looked out the new reprints, which took place AFTER siege perilous, starting around the time when Rogue was reborn, Storm was a 12-year-old, and Betsy became asian)

Many years later I read the Alan Davis run on Captain Britain and enjoyed it quite a bit. (not sure I was fond of the idea of semi-fridging Betsy by blinding her though...) I do think it's best that this be done, and have this... rather odd body-swap era come to an end - it's only right to those that find it offensive, and to the fans of Betsy from waaay back when, before she became a Ninja - it's like the Hulk finally becoming green again.


I think making Psylocke biracial is a fine enough idea, but I think if it was to be done, it should be done PROPERLY - with it being a part of her identity from the start, like with Sky/Quake in Agents of Shield. In a reboot I would probably be for it, like, they could have done that in ULTIMATE X-men, but instead they did a rehash of the same story they did in the mainline comics... I always felt that was cheap and lazy.

[Dementia5]

Doesn't it become a inherent flaw with character if they never touch it though? How many years has Psylocke been in her asian body? In talking about this I learned they didn't even give her Kwannon memories she just got the ninja stuff alone. Looking at it objectively you can see they just want her to have the ninja stuff and that looks was all that was in important to them or anyone over the years.

This all day. What was done to Kwannon was basically akin to a carjacking.

[BroHomo]

Karma or nothing.

OMG!! YAAAASS

And no one is going to replace Psylocke. There will just be one less iconic Asian female hero.

Err

Psylocke was never the premiere Asian X-men on the count that she was never Asian.

Thank You!"

(Different from Rachel Dolezal who is NOT living in a black body even if she wants to be and the rest of the world initially treated her as such.)

How so?

[TurboTaj]

How so?

Rachel Dolezal is physically white. Her body is that of a caucasian woman with no known african ancestry. She was a white woman pretending she was physically black. Psylocke was physically asian. Post-transfer, she actually physically lived in an asian body hence the distinction. There was no pretending. So if you live in an asian body and the world sees and treats you like an asian... are you not then asian?

[WallStreeter]

Jubilee. Who will hopefully now get real representation in the X-Men films now that Disney brought Marvel. Though Karma and Armor could be huge too if pushed more.