Who shall replace Psylocke as the PREMIERE Female Asian X-man?

[TurboTaj]

They all can at the same time. Asian Psylocke or no Asian Psylocke there was never any reason we couldn’t have more than one prominent Asian female character.

Agreed. The whole subject of this thread is as absurd as us saying "Who is the PREMIERE female white X-man?" Why can't there be several? This reeks of tokenism rather than actual diversity.

[shadowbox]

There can't be several because these are comics and despite the SJW-ness of the modern Marvel era, the status quo won't change lol. Are there several premiere Black X-women? Nope there's just Storm. Plz don't say Oya because where has she been?

And no one is going to replace Psylocke. There will just be one less iconic Asian female hero. Jubilee will be back in limbo after this Uncanny arc is over. Karma: not even in the movie, hasn't been on a team for years. Karima: not a mutant and not around. Trinary: new characters almost never make it past their creator's pen these days. Armor, Surge, Sprite, Nature Girl, Wicked: LOL keep dreaming.

[CRaymond]

Are there several premiere Black X-women?

What the world needs now is more Frenzy.

[L.R Johansson]

The suggestion of Karma - another long-running, older Asian X-man is a good one - she's been around since New Mutants volume 1, so she's got the history and familiarity to do something more with her. She's kind of dull compared to Jubilee though... but that's probably just my personal taste - one could do a highly complex and intriguing, from a cultural and identity-point of view, mini-series with Karma.

I could see something similar to Soule's Magneto but with Karma, for sure.

Agreed. The whole subject of this thread is as absurd as us saying "Who is the PREMIERE female white X-man?" Why can't there be several? This reeks of tokenism rather than actual diversity.

Cyclops. Well, I suppose it's Wolverine at the moment, but when cyke returns, he'll be the undisbuted king again.

For white X-women it's also quite simple: Jean Grey. (although I guess Rogue is close)

Although the thread may seem absurd, there's certainly something to the idea that only ONE character can truly be the #1 character of whatever category they belong to - there's also the fact that there's only so many characters whom can get a push at the same time.

I'll give you this though - this change does make me think a bit, and realize how FEW of X-men's asian ladies have ever gotten the big push. I would argue that Psylocke was the only one (although I agree she was never truly asian, but it just SEEMS that way to some of us, we have short memories, or we never read the books prior to the change) - what with her becoming so prominent in the 90's, with support from Jim Lee, and in the 2010's, with prominence in X-force and then later being given a mini-series and becoming leader of a new X-force incarnation all of her own.

In essence, you can view the thread as such - now that there's an opportunity to take a long-running asian female and doing something big with her, what character would have the same kind of mass-appeal as Psylocke? Obviously the answer is Jubilee, whom I could see getting both a new miniseries and heading up a new team - New X-men volume 6, anyone?

[TurboTaj]

Cyclops. Well, I suppose it's Wolverine at the moment, but when cyke returns, he'll be the undisbuted king again.

For white X-women it's also quite simple: Jean Grey. (although I guess Rogue is close)

Although the thread may seem absurd, there's certainly something to the idea that only ONE character can truly be the #1 character of whatever category they belong to - there's also the fact that there's only so many characters whom can get a push at the same time.

I'll give you this though - this change does make me think a bit, and realize how FEW of X-men's asian ladies have ever gotten the big push. I would argue that Psylocke was the only one (although I agree she was never truly asian, but it just SEEMS that way to some of us, we have short memories, or we never read the books prior to the change) - what with her becoming so prominent in the 90's, with support from Jim Lee, and in the 2010's, with prominence in X-force and then later being given a mini-series and becoming leader of a new X-force incarnation all of her own.

In essence, you can view the thread as such - now that there's an opportunity to take a long-running asian female and doing something big with her, what character would have the same kind of mass-appeal as Psylocke? Obviously the answer is Jubilee, whom I could see getting both a new miniseries and heading up a new team - New X-men volume 6, anyone?

See for white women I would've said Emma Frost. At least for a while we were in the Emma/Cyclops era. But really what you are seeing with the white characters is what should really be happening with all types of characters (with the disclaimer that it should of course be done organically and not as tokenism)... where someone can get a push and take the spotlight for a moment but it rotates. You don't really get that with black females (really only have Storm who is prominent and even then she is constantly sidelined and de-powered) and asian females.

I've said it several times before so I don't want to become overly redundant but I do consider Psylocke to be asian and I consider her to be representative of my experience. So I personally would prefer seeing her be considered biracial (as a true meld between Betsy and Kwannon.) But that's besides the point now that she's been reverted back to being white and we've lost another asian face representing us.

That being said, I do consider Jubilee to be the next most prominent asian female character. But I'd rather build up a catalogue of asian characters rather than having one character supposed to represent all asians. That way, if you don't feel a connection with someone like Psylocke as representative of your asian experience... great we have 3 other asian characters you can take a look at instead. Having one character who you dislike or feel is not authentic to your experience isn't a problem when you have multiple representatives for that group.

[L.R Johansson]

See for white women I would've said Emma Frost. At least for a while we were in the Emma/Cyclops era. But really what you are seeing with the white characters is what should really be happening with all types of characters (with the disclaimer that it should of course be done organically and not as tokenism)... where someone can get a push and take the spotlight for a moment but it rotates. You don't really get that with black females (really only have Storm who is prominent and even then she is constantly sidelined and de-powered) and asian females.

I've said it several times before so I don't want to become overly redundant but I do consider Psylocke to be asian and I consider her to be representative of my experience. So I personally would prefer seeing her be considered biracial (as a true meld between Betsy and Kwannon.) But that's besides the point now that she's been reverted back to being white and we've lost another asian face representing us.

That being said, I do consider Jubilee to be the next most prominent asian female character. But I'd rather build up a catalogue of asian characters rather than having one character supposed to represent all asians. That way, if you don't feel a connection with someone like Psylocke as representative of your asian experience... great we have 3 other asian characters you can take a look at instead. Having one character who you dislike or feel is not authentic to your experience isn't a problem when you have multiple representatives for that group.

What do you think about the idea touted by some of us in the thread, that Kwannon/Revanche were to be relaunched in her original body, to not have the revertion be a deduction on representation? To me, that's a win-win situation! = )

[TurboTaj]

What do you think about the idea touted by some of us in the thread, that Kwannon/Revanche were to be relaunched in her original body, to not have the revertion be a deduction on representation? To me, that's a win-win situation! = )

I have mixed feelings. I appreciate that people are trying to keep the asian representation but it also suggests that people are only fans of Psylocke because of her asian appearance (and yes I do acknowledge you can make similar arguments in the reverse as to why people oppose Psylocke going back to being white). Thereby belittling people's affection for the character as only being skin-deep. It also kind of suggests that we're interchangeable as asians and that our personalities and characters are secondary to our physical exteriors. That's my gut reaction to it at least.

What are your thoughts about making Psylocke be biracial then? I believe they've already done a mind-merge between Betsy and Kwannon so you can extend that out to the physical as well (plus it would basically make no difference in how she is drawn anyways since half the time artists draw her looking asian and half the time she still looks white ). It addresses the concerns people have about a white woman taking over an asian body while still acknowledging and retaining her iconic appearance and not whitewashing the Kwannon side of her post-merge identity. I always connected with Psylocke as a figure for people with complex racial, ethnic and cultural backgrounds so expanding on that and making her physically biracial seems to make sense to me. Her struggle (mainly outside comics... no writer really seems to have noticed this potential narrative with the character) with others trying to place her in a box to make her identity easier to understand or seem more acceptable hits close to home which is why I have such strong feelings about this.

[blanchett]

Psylocke is still Asian. They merged Kwannon and Betsy. The only difference is now the premier Asian X-Man will now be white.

[AdamFTF]

The X-Men's and Marvel's best known and least stereotypical Asian-American character is Jubilee.

Though, while I would love to see Jubilee get a push, she doesn't exactly fill Psylocke's place in the team. Betsy is a posh warrior woman with a sort of "two worlds" thing going on. Jubilee is an orphaned Cali girl who's remarkable for her ability to adapt to circumstances and grab joy from the jaws of despair.

Ideally, we should have more than just this to work with, though.

[CRaymond]

Psylocke is still Asian. They merged Kwannon and Betsy.

C'mon. Don't you get the sense that the whole "merged -body and soul" was just crap writing to bandaid the situation and cement the Asian body as the one true Betsy?

Trash.

I say this as a guy that actually WANTS to keep Psylocke in Kwannon's body. Sometimes.

[Flameworthy]

I agree that Kwannon should then return and be 100% ninja bad-ass, using the name Revanche of course.

Yasss please!

i think its time to bring back Sway!

I would also love for them to bring back Sway. Another Asian character that wasn't given enough time to develop.

I've honestly never been a fan of most of the other Asian women that have graced the pages of the X-books. Outside of Jubilee the others have been kind of lackluster or boring.

[blanchett]

C'mon. Don't you get the sense that the whole "merged -body and soul" was just crap writing to bandaid the situation and cement the Asian body as the one true Betsy?

Trash.

I say this as a guy that actually WANTS to keep Psylocke in Kwannon's body. Sometimes.

I like that story actually. It was one of my first when I start reading X-Men comics regularly.

I don't particularly mind her switching body. I think it's kind of her thing now. It just annoys me because this seems like a pc/sjw thing that I don't think people have actually thought this through. She has Kwannon's memories and clearly Kwannon influenced her her personality. I can't imagine Claremont's Betsy in X-Force.

I really hope she takes Styx body because that would give her new challenges.

I just don't feel like this is being done for story reasons. It's being done because they don't want a hit piece on Vox or Huffpost queer etc.

[Beetle]

Being "merged" with Kwannon wasn't exactly a 50/50 situation. It's not like Betsy ever gave a crap about Kwannon's life, her childhood, her family and friends, where she grew up or anything. All she really got from Kwannon was the ninja skills and the bloodlust.

Betsy still thought of Brian and Jamie as her brothers. Her own history was still all there, and being "combined" was more or less ignored by subsequent writers.

[Havok83]

I like that story actually. It was one of my first when I start reading X-Men comics regularly.

I don't particularly mind her switching body. I think it's kind of her thing now. It just annoys me because this seems like a pc/sjw thing that I don't think people have actually thought this through. She has Kwannon's memories and clearly Kwannon influenced her her personality. I can't imagine Claremont's Betsy in X-Force.

I really hope she takes Styx body because that would give her new challenges.

I just don't feel like this is being done for story reasons. It's being done because they don't want a hit piece on Vox or Huffpost queer etc.

She doesn have Kwannon's memories.

[Selene]

Being "merged" with Kwannon wasn't exactly a 50/50 situation. It's not like Betsy ever gave a crap about Kwannon's life, her childhood, her family and friends, where she grew up or anything. All she really got from Kwannon was the ninja skills and the bloodlust.

Betsy still thought of Brian and Jamie as her brothers. Her own history was still all there, and being "combined" was more or less ignored by subsequent writers.

She never got any memories from Kwannon,merely bits and pieces of her personality,of which she was purged once she passed away.

Kwannon had been brain-dead,her mind basically a blank state,after falling off a cliff well before the body swap.The Legacy Virus somehow enhanced her telepathy to the extent that it repaired the damage her brain had suffered,thus restoring her memories.There's irony for you.

But it was never addressed whether Kwannon had gotten any memories from Betsy.