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  1. #241
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Making a spectacle of an underdeveloped black female character is racist, misogynistic, and an example of cheap storytelling.

    And Cece was clearly off-model and picked up some extreme features that could indeed be considered a racist caricature.
    ..............what? Besides her looking a little older, what are you even talking about?

    And fridging black ppl (women more often than not) for the sake of white ppl's character development is indeed racist/ misogynistic. But........c'mon.........we knew what this event was going in. Bloodstorm wasn't making it past the O5 going home.
    Last edited by Tycon; 08-16-2018 at 06:24 PM.

  2. #242
    Astonishing Member Beetle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Bloodstorm was the token black member of the O5 Blue team, don't be obtuse.
    I agree, but the writer of X-Men Blue, Cullen Bunn, isn't really responsible for killing her off in this book.

    The way I see it there are two main issues regarding Bloodstorm. 1) She was underdeveloped in X-Men Blue. Which is Cullen Bunn's fault.
    And 2) she was fridged in this issue. Which is either a directive from editorial in which case it was Jordan White or Cebulski's decision (likely to cut down on the number of alternate reality characters running around), or it was a choice made on the part of the writer of this miniseries Ed Brisson.

    So there's plenty of blame to go around for the mishandling of this character.

  3. #243

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    Quote Originally Posted by ţh€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя¥ Tycon View Post
    ..............what? Besides her looking a little older, what are you even talking about?

    And fridging black ppl (women more often than not) for the sake of white ppl's character development is indeed racist/ misogynistic. But........c'mon.........we knew what this event was going in. Bloodstorm wasn't making it past the O5 going home
    If I drew Kitty with a big hooked nose out of nowhere, it would be the same effect. Cece looked crazy in this issue.

    As for the second thought, at least let us acknowledge this fact. Bloodstorm shouldn't have been brought into the line in the first place if this is what they were going to do with her. What's done is done, new editor, new wave, sure, but it was not handled well.
    Let the flames destroy all but that which is pure and true!

  4. #244
    Ultimate Member Tycon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    If I drew Kitty with a big hooked nose out of nowhere, it would be the same effect. Cece looked crazy in this issue.

    As for the second thought, at least let us acknowledge this fact. Bloodstorm shouldn't have been brought into the line in the first place if this is what they were going to do with her. What's done is done, new editor, new wave, sure, but it was not handled well.
    Big hooked nose? If wasn't "big", and let's not confuse actual black features with exaggerated caricatures. Nothing about Cece screams "exaggerated black features". We dont see it with Bloodstorm, either. It's reaching, AT BEST.



    The plan for Blue was "O5 + any time/universe-displaced characters under the training of Magneto". She was brought in because her arc made sense for her to. She's being killed off because it makes sense for her to.

  5. #245
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    Uh... Cece's not black, really. Not in the typical African American sense.

    She's Puerto Rican. Or more often known in NYC neighborhoods like the Bronx and Washington Heights as Boricuan. (Just so you guys know, there are darker brown and black skinned latin people, most notably Caribbean people from Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic. There's a large population of Dominicans and Puerto Ricans in NYC and Bronx with darker toned skin that aren't "black". There are also a lot of other dark skinned caribbeans in NYC from Trinidad and Haiti that speak other languages like patois) People in NYC are sensitive to accurate representation, since there are so many nuances in race that belong to different insular ethnic communities, so to just categorize Cece as black is inaccurate. (My Dominican and Trinidadian friends get mistaken as black sometimes, usually by ignorant people, and it offends them to no end) More accurately, Cecilia's Caribbean or Latin American.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecilia_Reyes

    Thanks for not generalizing!
    Last edited by Tunasammiches; 08-16-2018 at 07:50 PM.

  6. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sundowhn View Post
    Agree. I think it'll be a bloodbath.
    Absolutely. There's going to be another culling.

    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixzero23 View Post
    I think Jimmy is pretty safe. He is a wolverine which are popular, being a poison/wolverine made him pretty hard to kill and he is the token of the ultimate x-men on earth 616. I doubt he will die or even appear on Extermination.
    I think bringing him back for the conclusion of the story of the O5 makes sense. As I proposed, he could sacrifice himself in heroic fashion for the sake of Jean Grey. I personally think it'd be best to be rid of him. We don't need any more Wolverines, and I'm certain he'd be at the bottom of the popularity chart with Logan, Laura, Gabby and Daken (except maybe Weapon H if he counts). Anyways, Brisson did make it clear that Extermination will be culling AU characters. And other remnants of the Ultimate universe remain in 616 (Miles Morales and his family, Ganke, Bombshell, The Maker and Ultimate Mjolnir) so I don't see a need to keep Jimmy. Heck, if they were to keep any mutants from 1610, I would rather they had kept Blackheath, Mach II or Guardian.

    Quote Originally Posted by ţh€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя¥ Tycon View Post
    Magneto and Emma Frost, I absolutely doubt. Their X-Men Black issues are meant to reposition them in a new light for the new era. Plus, Emma has plot protection since she's in Infinity Wars. And Bunn's """killed""" Jimmy off and sent him off the cast, but I wonder if that'll stop the ol' Brisson Bloodbath Machine from touching him.

    But yeah, Kymera, X-Man, whoever's leftover from X-Treme X-Men, Cecilia Reyes (i just KNOW those kids are gonna blow her up Gifted-style), and Rachel are all top of the list.
    I genuinely forgot about X-Men Black for a moment, despite having read the interview for X-Men Black: Juggernaut earlier today. You're probably right. I only considered them because of their ties to the O5 via X-Men Blue. I suppose by extension that Danger and Gazing Nightshade could be killed off if they're players in the event.

    I doubt we'll see Kymera or anyone from X-Treme X-Men. Even X-Man is a longshot. But I won't rule it out. And I knew I forgot someone on my list. Cecilia Reyes is in grave danger. I hope they don't kill another POC. Even with her minimal role as the school nurse, she's still likable and I'd be sad to see her go.

    Quote Originally Posted by ţh€ €жţяą-๏яďɨɲąя¥ Tycon View Post
    The plan for Blue was "O5 + any time/universe-displaced characters under the training of Magneto". She was brought in because her arc made sense for her to. She's being killed off because it makes sense for her to.
    Bunn considered multiple other AU characters, including Ruby Summers, Nocturne and X-Man. I suspect Bloodstorm won out because she brought much-needed diversity to the group, and made the most sense in paralleling the legitimate X-Men. Unfortunately, she passed her expiry date when Blue was cut short, and it was decided she'd served her purpose. I maintain that she would've been great for X-Force or Exiles, but I suppose those writers had no inclination to use her character.

  7. #247
    Invincible Member Havok83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    Uh... Cece's not black, really. Not in the typical African American sense.

    She's Puerto Rican. Or more often known in NYC neighborhoods like the Bronx and Washington Heights as Boricuan. (Just so you guys know, there are darker brown and black skinned latin people, most notably Caribbean people from Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic. There's a large population of Dominicans and Puerto Ricans in NYC and Bronx with darker toned skin that aren't "black". There are also a lot of other dark skinned caribbeans in NYC from Trinidad and Haiti that speak other languages like patois) People in NYC are sensitive to accurate representation, since there are so many nuances in race that belong to different insular ethnic communities, so to just categorize Cece as black is inaccurate. (My Dominican and Trinidadian friends get mistaken as black sometimes, usually by ignorant people, and it offends them to no end) More accurately, Cecilia's Caribbean or Latin American.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecilia_Reyes

    Thanks for not generalizing!
    Yes she is black. Caribbean and Latin American arent races. Cece has always been portrayed as an Afro-latina. Puerto Rican is her ethnicity. Black is her race

  8. #248
    Fire and life incarnate! phoenixzero23's Avatar
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    Now i remember an old preview from Larraz twitter
    https://twitter.com/PepeLarraz/statu...94166111449089

    I guess the carnage will continue and will hit jeen hard.

  9. #249
    Askani'Son Drakeon's Avatar
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    The only thing I find odd is how old CeCe looks on that page
    "Dear World: the nation of mutantkind is watching you. Do not #$%& with us." -Cable-

  10. #250
    Extraordinary Member Master of Sound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by King_Thor13 View Post
    I think Rachel, Magneto and Emma Frost are at risk. Possibly X-Man, Hope Summers, Jimmy Hudson or Kymera if they're brought into the story. I agree there are likely other casualties in an event titled Extermination.
    Emma and Magneto will not be killed off. But I do fear all the characters who are here coming from the past or future are at risk. Ahab and young Cable might both be after all time displaced characters.

    So we should probably fear for Bishop, Rachel, Kymera, Poison/Jimmy and Hope.

    Or I might not be on to something
    Last edited by Master of Sound; 08-16-2018 at 10:29 PM.
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  11. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Sound View Post
    Emma and Magneto will not be killed off. But I do fear all the characters who are here coming from the past or future are at risk. Ahab and young Cable might both be after all time displaced characters.

    So we should probably fear for Bishop, Rachel, Kymera, Poison/Jimmy and Hope.

    Or I might not be on to something
    Bishop, Rachel, Kymera, and Hope are all original characters. Due to the o5 being in the present, there were two versions of the original X-Men except for everyone except Cyclops (due to his adult counterpart dying). Editorial has decided to sent the o5 to the past. Meaning Bloodstorm and Jimmy were likely going to be screwed. Considering where Marvel has gone with Storm (goddess, queen of Wakanda) Bloodstorm just doesn't fit in.

    With that said Bloodstorm's death in the issue is likely reversible, as this issue had Iceman and Cable die and we know their deaths won't stick.

  12. #252
    Everything Fades Away... butterflykyss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Yes she is black. Caribbean and Latin American arent races. Cece has always been portrayed as an Afro-latina. Puerto Rican is her ethnicity. Black is her race
    I hate that we still have to distinguish this difference on this thread like every month it seems. but thank you for your diligence in explaining this .
    ALL HAIL THE HADARI YAO, THE OMEGA'S OMEGA, BEYOND OMEGA, THE VOICE OF SOL!!!! NOW AGAIN THE ONE TRUE AND ONLY GODDESS OF THE X-MEN AS CLAREMONT INTENDED!!!!!

  13. #253
    Time Police BishopsJuice91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tunasammiches View Post
    Uh... Cece's not black, really. Not in the typical African American sense.

    She's Puerto Rican. Or more often known in NYC neighborhoods like the Bronx and Washington Heights as Boricuan. (Just so you guys know, there are darker brown and black skinned latin people, most notably Caribbean people from Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic. There's a large population of Dominicans and Puerto Ricans in NYC and Bronx with darker toned skin that aren't "black". There are also a lot of other dark skinned caribbeans in NYC from Trinidad and Haiti that speak other languages like patois) People in NYC are sensitive to accurate representation, since there are so many nuances in race that belong to different insular ethnic communities, so to just categorize Cece as black is inaccurate. (My Dominican and Trinidadian friends get mistaken as black sometimes, usually by ignorant people, and it offends them to no end) More accurately, Cecilia's Caribbean or Latin American.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecilia_Reyes

    Thanks for not generalizing!
    All the people you just mentioned are indeed black or of African decent. They’re NOT African American but are indeed black. I think you’re confusing their nationality with actual race. I know they want to be associated with their respective nations but that does not change the fact they are Black at the end of the day whether they be from Haiti or the DR they’re still black. Black is just a term we use mainly in America that other countries don’t use but it doesn’t change the fact they’re Black, we all are....

  14. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Havok83 View Post
    Yes she is black. Caribbean and Latin American arent races. Cece has always been portrayed as an Afro-latina. Puerto Rican is her ethnicity. Black is her race
    Nationality not ethnicity...

  15. #255
    Extraordinary Member BroHomo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    Making a spectacle of an underdeveloped black female character is racist, misogynistic, and an example of cheap storytelling.

    And Cece was clearly off-model and picked up some extreme features that could indeed be considered a racist caricature.
    ugh Thank you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by butterflykyss View Post
    I hate that we still have to distinguish this difference on this thread like every month it seems. but thank you for your diligence in explaining this .
    I find it comforting lol

    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post

    As for the second thought, at least let us acknowledge this fact. Bloodstorm shouldn't have been brought into the line in the first place if this is what they were going to do with her. What's done is done, new editor, nw wave, sure, but it was not handled well.
    Agree! How can a teen with a sheltered upbringing, barely any training and whose mutation is Big hands/feet super smarts or hollow bones and big wings outlive a street smart chick who grew up fighting and can control the weather, vermin, turn into mists a F^cking immortal....

    Quote Originally Posted by yogaflame View Post
    If you show blatant disrespect towards your one token black character, making a spectacle of her demise, than yes, it is racism.
    Soooo True killin' it yogaflame

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