Extermination #1 (spoilers/discussion thread)

[Tycon]

OMG, can we please stop this?

We have had these discussion numerous times, I think we had enough now.

Let's not try to have a race, color, ethnic , gender, LGBT discussion in every thread and call each other whatever we like because we refuse to want to listen or understand one another.

If someone comes on the thread, spreading incorrect information, then they need to be corrected on it. Bottom line.

I genuinely forgot about X-Men Black for a moment, despite having read the interview for X-Men Black: Juggernaut earlier today. You're probably right. I only considered them because of their ties to the O5 via X-Men Blue. I suppose by extension that Danger and Gazing Nightshade could be killed off if they're players in the event.

I doubt we'll see Kymera or anyone from X-Treme X-Men. Even X-Man is a longshot. But I won't rule it out. And I knew I forgot someone on my list. Cecilia Reyes is in grave danger. I hope they don't kill another POC. Even with her minimal role as the school nurse, she's still likable and I'd be sad to see her go.

Hehehehheh "Longshot". Anyways, yeah I fear the Raksha may get in the way in Extermination. With their fierce loyalty to the O5, I can see them dying off while trying to protect them from Ahab or nu52Cable. But I'm trying to think of any other characters that could possibly go. From the teaser + writer's confirmations, most of the New X-Men are safe and I don't see them killing off the ones who weren't confirmed (Dust, Gentle since he's in Red, Mercury etc). Brisson did say that have a role to play, albeit a small one. But we haven't seen them in play in an X-Men event since AvX???? A small role is better than no role. And killing off Cecilia Reyes will lead to GUARANTEED backlash, and I'll be on the front lines. Besides, she needs to get back out on the field for a mission or two. I just hope she doesn't go out like that.....or at all.

Bunn considered multiple other AU characters, including Ruby Summers, Nocturne and X-Man. I suspect Bloodstorm won out because she brought much-needed diversity to the group, and made the most sense in paralleling the legitimate X-Men. Unfortunately, she passed her expiry date when Blue was cut short, and it was decided she'd served her purpose. I maintain that she would've been great for X-Force or Exiles, but I suppose those writers had no inclination to use her character.

Bloodstorm joining the Exiles would've been great. Her trying to find a home because she feels like she's "lost" hers with Magneto going nuts, Jimmy """dying""" and a shell of him assuming his face, and the O5 leaving. But besides that cool avenue, none of those alt-universe survivors were making it. It was solidified when 1610!Pietro and the New Marauders got sadly offed.

[Havok83]

Do you guys think Ahab and young Cable are working together or not? Bloodstorm wasn't on the computer screen behind young Cable on the last page so I think it's really about preventing the time-displaced X-Men from doing something in the future.

Also we see a dead Ororo in the opening scene...does that mean there are two versions of her in the event? Or is it just Bloodstorm dying in the future but not disintegrating because there was no silver involved?

That was 616 Storm. She is wearing her Uncanny X-Force costume.

Bloodstorm doesnt belong to this timeline therefore is irrelevant to Cable and Ahab. She just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time

[Triniking1234]

Do you guys think Ahab and young Cable are working together or not? Bloodstorm wasn't on the computer screen behind young Cable on the last page so I think it's really about preventing the time-displaced X-Men from doing something in the future.

Also we see a dead Ororo in the opening scene...does that mean there are two versions of her in the event? Or is it just Bloodstorm dying in the future but not disintegrating because there was no silver involved?

The dead Ororo was most likely 616 Ororo.

[Triniking1234]

Thanks, Tycon, for reminding me that they aged Cece 30 years in this book.

[phoenixzero23]

Do you guys think Ahab and young Cable are working together or not? Bloodstorm wasn't on the computer screen behind young Cable on the last page so I think it's really about preventing the time-displaced X-Men from doing something in the future.

Also we see a dead Ororo in the opening scene...does that mean there are two versions of her in the event? Or is it just Bloodstorm dying in the future but not disintegrating because there was no silver involved?

If they are working together, i get the feeling they will backstab each other at the end or maybe they are competing againts each other.

[Askani's Flame]

Do you guys think Ahab and young Cable are working together or not? Bloodstorm wasn't on the computer screen behind young Cable on the last page so I think it's really about preventing the time-displaced X-Men from doing something in the future.

I'm not sure yet. I want to say no, but it's unclear. Given that Ahab actively works for the domination and destruction of the mutant race, and that he wanted to kill Tyke, I think he is out for some other goal. He's likely responsible for the waves of Sentinel attacks we've seen at the end of the other books.

NuCable saw that death a destruction had occurred and was not correct for that timeline, so he is actively trying to fix the death we've seen in the previews by returning the O5 back.

[Rover]

That was 616 Storm. She is wearing her Uncanny X-Force costume.

Bloodstorm doesnt belong to this timeline therefore is irrelevant to Cable and Ahab. She just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time

I didn't notice the costume...that makes sense
I feel like Bloodstorm died too fast and her death was more of a plot device to show that Ahab is the bad guy (and to conveniently not have her in the way as stuff happens to the O5).

If they are working together, i get the feeling they will backstab each other at the end or maybe they are competing againts each other.

Yes! I would love to see that.


Other theory - after re-reading issue #1 I get the feeling that old Cable died too easily. Do you think he just let young Cable have the upper hand because he has seen the timeline and him dying at this point in time is preferable to him having to kill young Cable?

[Tunasammiches]

Latino is a race, it's an ethnicity. You can be black or white and still be latino. If your friends get offended when they are called black, then they are the ignorant ones. If Cece isn't black then what do you think she is?

To answer your question, CeCe is Latin American, or mixed race. She herself identifies herself as Puerto Rican early on. She might be a dark skinned Puerto Rican, but she is Puerto Rican, from Puerto Rico. Actually, in the New Mutants movie, it looks like they hired a light skinned Brazilian actress to portray her. If Marvel/Fox considered Cece as black, they would have considered casting a black actress to play her rather than people with Latin or South American descent. Rosario Dawson was supposed to play Cece, but backed down to they got a Brazilian actress instead. It looks like Marvel/FOX doesn't just classify her by her race, so why are you?

One time this black guy (African American) classified my Trinidadian friend as just "black", in the African American sense, but she and her family are not descended from Africa or America. So she corrected the guy and told him that more accurately, she considers herself Trinidadian with black skin. The guy, not caring about how she felt, insisted on calling her black and would not hear it. She got upset that he wouldn't respect her and dismissed her own clarification to her face. She was offended. So which is more important: The conversation was between him and her, and it was about her identity, specifically. Who's the ignorant one? The person trying to get him to recognize her accurately, or the guy who wants to live in his own preconceived notion of how to classify black skinned people? Since the conversation was about her, in consideration to respect, who's feelings were more important in that situation? The way the guy felt, or the way she felt?

I don't think my friends are the ignorant ones, since they have lived in their skin all their lives and more commonly, prefer to be identified accurately. When people ask an Irish person or Italian person what they are, or even minority people of color, they don't typically say "I'm white" or "I'm black". They say "I'm Irish on my mom's side and Polish on my dad's side" for example. But rarely have I even just heard anyone accurately identify themselves by their race, unless they don't know their own genetic make-up.

Another example, I'm filipino. Before the 80's we were lumped into the "asian" category. But then it evolved to the "pacific islander" category. Even though my face looks asian, because those genes ended up being the dominant one, due to my grandparents' sicilian genes, half of my genetic makeup is Sicilian and the other half has Spanish. We don't speak Chinese, or any other asian language, and in fact, most of our language has Spanish words infused into it. It might not seem like it to you, but accurate representation and identification is important, especially to us minorities, who tend to get lumped into the one or two races that white people understand or have been exposed to. I might look asian, but I'm more Latin. Since I have more Latin/European in me but my face looks asian, who do you think I should identify with? Should I just lump myself with general asians just to make it easier and more convenient for folks like you, even though that's not actually accurate?

Last example: My boyfriend is half Dominican/half Cuban. He's a dark brown skinned man. His family is from the Caribbean and he was born and raised in NYC as an American. When he walks down the street, because of his skin color, people assume he's black. But when they talk to him its a different story. He speaks spanish and does not identify with black culture, so when non-black people (white people, mexicans, etc) mistake him for a black person, he has to correct them every single time. Although it's interesting that other Dominicans and also other black people can immediately tell he's not black, because they are not ignorant and they have life experience and history distinguishing between the differences, where you and other people with different life experiences might not. My boyfriend has dark skin, but he's not black (because of his nose and other facial features). Do you understand what I'm saying? I know it's intricate for anyone not living in our shoes, but I work as a museum exhibit designer and that job deals with projects that rely on accurate representation, so my job requires that I'm conscious about representation and how to address people's races, ethnicities and cultural identities and teach people about inclusivity and respect.

I hope this made sense. I also hope you asked a legitimate question and not just some internet troll looking to battle. I've probably spent too much time and energy replying to you but I've also been in a lot of conversations with other people ABOUT ME who want to identify or generalize me in their own way, without much consideration to how I feel, or how lazy and limited their own world view is. Bottom line is, you can't just call people "black" just because they have black skin. You can't force them to fit into your perception of what "black" is if that's not how they identify themselves. If I take time to explain to a person who knows nothing about me other than what they visibly see as the color of my skin or the way my face looks and they still insist to lump me into a racial category I don't identify with, I don't think I'm the ignorant one. I think it's the person that wants to make the generalization that's got the actual problem, and ignorance issue.

[Havok83]

I'm not sure yet. I want to say no, but it's unclear. Given that Ahab actively works for the domination and destruction of the mutant race, and that he wanted to kill Tyke, I think he is out for some other goal. He's likely responsible for the waves of Sentinel attacks we've seen at the end of the other books.

NuCable saw that death a destruction had occurred and was not correct for that timeline, so he is actively trying to fix the death we've seen in the previews by returning the O5 back.

I don’t think he wanted to kill Scott. He told the hounds to bring Scott to him so I took it as him wanting Scott alive

[Digifiend]

But there is no way that someone simply telling Beast to not bring them back would resolve what has happened since. Everything from that point forward would get erased and we'd be back in 2013 (which in some cases might not be bad lol) with completely different outcomes to events given the involvement of the O5 since then.

Alright, to give other examples:

Most of Waid's Champions run, except for issues 1, 10, and 11, would play out differently.

No Poison X or Venomized, because Teen Scott isn't there to have his video call to Dad interrupted. This also means RIP Starjammers.

Several events in All-New Wolverine would be affected due to Angel's absence.

Black Vortex and Battle of the Atom would both also be altered.

[thechronic92]

To answer your question, CeCe is Latin American. She herself identifies herself as Puerto Rican early on. She might be a dark skinned Puerto Rican, but she is Puerto Rican, from Puerto Rico. Actually, in the New Mutants movie, it looks like they hired a light skinned Brazilian actress to portray her. If Marvel/Fox considered Cece as black, they would have cast a black actress to play her rather than people with Latin or South American descent (Rosario Dawson was supposed to play Cece, but backed down to they got a Brazilian actress instead. It looks like Marvel/FOX doesn't just classify her by her race, so why are you?

One time this black guy (African American) classified my Trinidadian friend as just "black", in the African American sense, but she and her family are not descended from Africa or America. So she corrected the guy and told him that more accurately, she considers herself Trinidadian with black skin. The guy, not caring about how she felt, insisted on calling her black and would not hear it. She got upset that he wouldn't respect her and dismissed her own clarification to her face. She was offended. So which is more important: The conversation was between him and her, and it was about her identity, specifically. Who's the ignorant one? The person trying to get him to recognize her accurately, or the guy who wants to live in his own preconceived notion of how to classify black skinned people? Since the conversation was about her, in consideration to respect, who's feelings were more important in that situation? The way the guy felt, or the way she felt?

I don't think my friends are the ignorant ones, since they have lived in their skin all their lives and more commonly, prefer to be identified accurately. When people ask an Irish person or Italian person what they are, or even minority people of color, they don't typically say "I'm white" or "I'm black". They say "I'm Irish on my mom's side and Polish on my dad's side" for example. But rarely have I even just heard anyone accurately identify themselves by their race, unless they don't know their own genetic make-up.

Another example, I'm filipino. Before the 80's we were lumped into the "asian" category. But then it evolved to the "pacific islander" category. Even though my face looks asian, because those genes ended up being the dominant one, due to my grandparents' sicilian genes, half of my genetic makeup is Sicilian and the other half has Spanish. We don't speak Chinese, or any other asian language, and in fact, most of our language has Spanish words infused into it. It might not seem like it to you, but accurate representation and identification is important, especially to us minorities, who tend to get lumped into the one or two races that white people understand or have been exposed to. I might look asian, but I'm more Latin. Since I have more Latin/European in me but my face looks asian, who do you think I should identify with? Should I just lump myself with general asians just to make it easier and more convenient for folks like you, even though that's not actually accurate?

Last example: My boyfriend is half Dominican/half Cuban. He's a dark brown skinned man. His family is from the Caribbean and he was born and raised in NYC as an American. When he walks down the street, because of his skin color, people assume he's black. But when they talk to him its a different story. He speaks spanish and does not identify with black culture, so when non-black people (white people, mexicans, etc) mistake him for a black person, he has to correct them every single time. Although it's interesting that other Dominicans and also other black people can immediately tell he's not black, because they are not ignorant and they have life experience and history distinguishing between the differences, where you and other people with different life experiences might not. My boyfriend has dark skin, but he's not black (because of his nose and other facial features). Do you understand what I'm saying? I know it's intricate for anyone not living in our shoes, but I work as a museum exhibit designer and that job deals with projects that rely on accurate representation, so my job requires that I'm conscious about representation and how to address people's races, ethnicities and cultural identities and teach people about inclusivity and respect.

I hope this made sense. I also hope you asked a legitimate question and not just some internet troll looking to battle. I've probably spent too much time and energy replying to you but I've also been in a lot of conversations with other people ABOUT ME who want to identify or generalize me in their own way, without much consideration to how I feel, or how lazy and limited their own world view is. Bottom line is, you can't just call people "black" just because they have black skin. You can't force them to fit into your perception of what "black" is if that's not how they identify themselves. If I take time to explain to a person who knows nothing about me other than what they visibly see as the color of my skin or the way my face looks and they still insist to lump me into a racial category I don't identify with, I don't think I'm the ignorant one. I think it's the person that wants to make the generalization that's got the actual problem, and ignorance issue.

I have another question. What's your definition of black?

[BroHomo]

To answer your question, CeCe is Latin American, or mixed race. She herself identifies herself as Puerto Rican early on. She might be a dark skinned Puerto Rican, but she is Puerto Rican, from Puerto Rico. Actually, in the New Mutants movie, it looks like they hired a light skinned Brazilian actress to portray her. If Marvel/Fox considered Cece as black, they would have considered casting a black actress to play her rather than people with Latin or South American descent. Rosario Dawson was supposed to play Cece, but backed down to they got a Brazilian actress instead. It looks like Marvel/FOX doesn't just classify her by her race, so why are you?

Uhh if the New Mutants movie is where you're starting your defense you've already lost :/

One time this black guy (African American) classified my Trinidadian friend as just "black", in the African American sense, but she and her family are not descended from Africa or America. So she corrected the guy and told him that more accurately, she considers herself Trinidadian with black skin. The guy, not caring about how she felt, insisted on calling her black and would not hear it. She got upset that he wouldn't respect her and dismissed her own clarification to her face. She was offended.

uh why did your friend care so much ? She most definitely descended from people in Africa I don't get how you don't know that

So which is more important: The conversation was between him and her, and it was about her identity, specifically. Who's the ignorant one? The person trying to get him to recognize her accurately, or the guy who wants to live in his own preconceived notion of how to classify black skinned people?

Was this for a survey or school project? black skinned people are black nothing about the description should bring to mind a whole culture of preconceived notions unless you have a your own biases [/QUOTE]

I don't think my friends are the ignorant ones, since they have lived in their skin all their lives and more commonly, prefer to be identified accurately. When people ask an Irish person or Italian person what they are, or even minority people of color, they don't typically say "I'm white" or "I'm black". They say "I'm Irish on my mom's side and Polish on my dad's side" for example. But rarely have I even just heard anyone accurately identify themselves by their race, unless they don't know their own genetic make-up.

Uhh they don't say im white or black because that is obvious when someone asks "where you're from?" do you say Earth? No cause youre assuming the person asking is aware of this. Since many Black Americans had ancestors who were stolen from their native country a lotta of them are unaware of their genetic makeup. I know my Grandpa was FOB Irish and grandma was Creek Indian and Black beyond that is a mystery. My moms from Cleveland im from Alabama being American is enough for me

Bottom line is, you can't just call people "black" just because they have black skin. You can't force them to fit into your perception of what "black" is if thats not how they identify themselves

What would that perception be in your mind ?

[Triniking1234]

To answer your question, CeCe is Latin American, or mixed race. She herself identifies herself as Puerto Rican early on. She might be a dark skinned Puerto Rican, but she is Puerto Rican, from Puerto Rico. Actually, in the New Mutants movie, it looks like they hired a light skinned Brazilian actress to portray her. If Marvel/Fox considered Cece as black, they would have considered casting a black actress to play her rather than people with Latin or South American descent. Rosario Dawson was supposed to play Cece, but backed down to they got a Brazilian actress instead. It looks like Marvel/FOX doesn't just classify her by her race, so why are you?

One time this black guy (African American) classified my Trinidadian friend as just "black", in the African American sense, but she and her family are not descended from Africa or America. So she corrected the guy and told him that more accurately, she considers herself Trinidadian with black skin. The guy, not caring about how she felt, insisted on calling her black and would not hear it. She got upset that he wouldn't respect her and dismissed her own clarification to her face. She was offended. So which is more important: The conversation was between him and her, and it was about her identity, specifically. Who's the ignorant one? The person trying to get him to recognize her accurately, or the guy who wants to live in his own preconceived notion of how to classify black skinned people? Since the conversation was about her, in consideration to respect, who's feelings were more important in that situation? The way the guy felt, or the way she felt?

I don't think my friends are the ignorant ones, since they have lived in their skin all their lives and more commonly, prefer to be identified accurately. When people ask an Irish person or Italian person what they are, or even minority people of color, they don't typically say "I'm white" or "I'm black". They say "I'm Irish on my mom's side and Polish on my dad's side" for example. But rarely have I even just heard anyone accurately identify themselves by their race, unless they don't know their own genetic make-up.

Another example, I'm filipino. Before the 80's we were lumped into the "asian" category. But then it evolved to the "pacific islander" category. Even though my face looks asian, because those genes ended up being the dominant one, due to my grandparents' sicilian genes, half of my genetic makeup is Sicilian and the other half has Spanish. We don't speak Chinese, or any other asian language, and in fact, most of our language has Spanish words infused into it. It might not seem like it to you, but accurate representation and identification is important, especially to us minorities, who tend to get lumped into the one or two races that white people understand or have been exposed to. I might look asian, but I'm more Latin. Since I have more Latin/European in me but my face looks asian, who do you think I should identify with? Should I just lump myself with general asians just to make it easier and more convenient for folks like you, even though that's not actually accurate?

Last example: My boyfriend is half Dominican/half Cuban. He's a dark brown skinned man. His family is from the Caribbean and he was born and raised in NYC as an American. When he walks down the street, because of his skin color, people assume he's black. But when they talk to him its a different story. He speaks spanish and does not identify with black culture, so when non-black people (white people, mexicans, etc) mistake him for a black person, he has to correct them every single time. Although it's interesting that other Dominicans and also other black people can immediately tell he's not black, because they are not ignorant and they have life experience and history distinguishing between the differences, where you and other people with different life experiences might not. My boyfriend has dark skin, but he's not black (because of his nose and other facial features). Do you understand what I'm saying? I know it's intricate for anyone not living in our shoes, but I work as a museum exhibit designer and that job deals with projects that rely on accurate representation, so my job requires that I'm conscious about representation and how to address people's races, ethnicities and cultural identities and teach people about inclusivity and respect.

I hope this made sense. I also hope you asked a legitimate question and not just some internet troll looking to battle. I've probably spent too much time and energy replying to you but I've also been in a lot of conversations with other people ABOUT ME who want to identify or generalize me in their own way, without much consideration to how I feel, or how lazy and limited their own world view is. Bottom line is, you can't just call people "black" just because they have black skin. You can't force them to fit into your perception of what "black" is if that's not how they identify themselves. If I take time to explain to a person who knows nothing about me other than what they visibly see as the color of my skin or the way my face looks and they still insist to lump me into a racial category I don't identify with, I don't think I'm the ignorant one. I think it's the person that wants to make the generalization that's got the actual problem, and ignorance issue.

This story's interesting since I'm also from Trinidad.

Did the dude assume your friend was of African descent just because she said she was from Trinidad?

[BroHomo]

This story's interesting since I'm also from Trinidad.

Did the dude assume your friend was of African descent just because she said she was from Trinidad?

Pretty sure it was because her friend has a dark hue of skin

[nx01a]

This story's interesting since I'm also from Trinidad.
Did the dude assume your friend was of African descent just because she said she was from Trinidad?

Fellow West Indian here... and I am SO confused at the 'Trinidad but not of African descent' thing. Is she very dark skinned and of East Indian descent? I need details. Plus the whole 'Trinis speak patois' thing, making it seem like all yuh speak an English/French mixup or something like some other islands.