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  1. #16
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pav View Post
    Spider-Man = Mario
    Scarlet Spider = Luigi
    Venom = Wario
    Carnage = Waluigi

    -Pav, who just wanted everyone to be aware...
    That's a pretty cool comparison, and Scarlet Spider and Carnage are both primarily red, so . . .
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #17
    More eldritch than thou Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpyred View Post
    Never understood the hate Carnage/Cletus Kasady gets. Granted, some of the stories he has been the focus off could have been better. But the reality is Carnage can really become something special if the right writer came around.

    Cletus is the perfect foil for Peter Parker. Peter's parents died and he was raised by two loving relatives. Cletus set up his abusive father to be executed and then he was put into the system and turned into an even bigger evil than he already was. Peter has the power and responsibility. Cletus is pure chaos. If Cletus had been written in a similar way to the Christopher Nolan version of Joker in The Dark Knight, we may have something better than just "kill, kill, kill".
    Don't forget that his first victim was his grandmother, and that he killed the family dog as well. The personality of Kasady so thoroughly overwhelmed that of the symbiote (though it was probably naturally nasty to begin with) that everyone individual that has bonded with it has had Kasady's madness flood their brains. Norman Osborn is the exception simply for the fact that he's already a deranged killer.

    I do agree that Carnage has been somewhat one-dimensional over the years, but one of his best stories was Carnage USA where he tortured an entire town, such as having everybody pull out their teeth and forcing the town sheriff to do Carnage's bidding or see his kids get killed (he also turned the kids into mini-Carnages to go out slaughtering other people). At the end, we found out that Carnage also brutally murdered the sheriff's baby daughter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    That's actually a shockingly good point. If Venom is the anti-Spider-Man, Carnage could just as easily be the anti-Peter Parker. Hell, there's even a version of Spider-Man that was a sociopath in the making before getting spider-powers, and if he'd survived fighting Morlun in his one-shot debut, he could've very well been as bad as Kasady, if not worse.
    Well that Spider-Man wouldn't have had Carnage's extreme strength and alien abilities, but I do agree that he would have been quite terrifying and dangerous. I've thought for a while that an alt-universe Spider-Carnage, from a reality where the symbiote overwhelmed Ben Reilly, should be introduced, as we'd essentially have a psychotic Peter Parker running around.
    "I should describe my known nature as tripartite, my interests consisting of three parallel and disassociated groups; a) love of the strange and the fantastic, b) love of abstract truth and scientific logic, c) love of the ancient and the permanent. Sundry combinations of these strains will probably account for my...odd tastes, and eccentricities."

  3. #18
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venomous Mask View Post
    Don't forget that his first victim was his grandmother, and that he killed the family dog as well. The personality of Kasady so thoroughly overwhelmed that of the symbiote (though it was probably naturally nasty to begin with) that everyone individual that has bonded with it has had Kasady's madness flood their brains. Norman Osborn is the exception simply for the fact that he's already a deranged killer.

    I do agree that Carnage has been somewhat one-dimensional over the years, but one of his best stories was Carnage USA where he tortured an entire town, such as having everybody pull out their teeth and forcing the town sheriff to do Carnage's bidding or see his kids get killed (he also turned the kids into mini-Carnages to go out slaughtering other people). At the end, we found out that Carnage also brutally murdered the sheriff's baby daughter.



    Well that Spider-Man wouldn't have had Carnage's extreme strength and alien abilities, but I do agree that he would have been quite terrifying and dangerous. I've thought for a while that an alt-universe Spider-Carnage, from a reality where the symbiote overwhelmed Ben Reilly, should be introduced, as we'd essentially have a psychotic Peter Parker running around.
    Speaking of Spider-Carnage, there was the 90s animated series' take on him. That one was an alternate Peter Parker who snapped after not just losing his Uncle Ben and Aunt May, but also his very sense of self and identity on account of the existence of a clone (Ben Reilly/Scarlet Spider) and the possibility that he was the clone all along, and then was driven further out of his mind by the Carnage symbiote. It got to the point where he was going to annihilate all reality using an incendiary bomb amplified by an interdimensional transporter before he was stopped by a team-up of alternate Spider-Men (including Scarlet Spider and the "main reality's" Spider-Man) with the help of another Uncle Ben from a reality where he still lived.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #19
    Astonishing Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypestyle View Post
    not a carnage fan. he should have stayed in the sun where Sentry threw him.
    I'm a huge Venom Fan, but I never liked Carnage either. When he got tossed into the sun, that brought a huge smile to my face.

    Carnage is pleasing to look at and I like his powers, but Kletus is just one dimensional. I agree that he has potential, (show how much of a tortured soul he is) but at the moment, there isn't anything special about him.

    I'd rather see the Carnage Symbiote bond to a new host. Maybe somebody from the Yakuza.

  5. #20
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla2099 View Post
    I'm a huge Venom Fan, but I never liked Carnage either. When he got tossed into the sun, that brought a huge smile to my face.

    Carnage is pleasing to look at and I like his powers, but Kletus is just one dimensional. I agree that he has potential, (show how much of a tortured soul he is) but at the moment, there isn't anything special about him.

    I'd rather see the Carnage Symbiote bond to a new host. Maybe somebody from the Yakuza.
    So what did you think of "Red Goblin" in Go Down Swinging, then, just out of curiosity?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  6. #21
    Astonishing Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    So what did you think of "Red Goblin" in Go Down Swinging, then, just out of curiosity?
    Red Goblin? Fun story. Impressed Norman was able to master a symbiote so quickly. Figured the Carnage one would be the toughest to obey the host.

    Almost the same opinion. Really pleasing to look at. Especially Alex Ross's Cover. Easily one of my favorites. The fire breathing goblin was awesome. I still don't remember how Norman pulled that part off. He vaccinated his body to be immune to fire so it passed on to the symbiote?

    Thing is, I'm not a fan of Norman either (but I like him more than Kletus). Unlike Kletus, I find Norman more than too complicated. He's just a complete mess. The only Norman Stories I liked actually didn't involve Spider-Man. When his Dark Avengers took on the X-Men and when he tried to play Doom but paid the price for his arrogance. Macendale was by far my favorite goblin

    However, just about every story I read where the Carnage Symbiote goes to another host (Spider-Carnage, Silver Surfer Carnage, the woman who sprouted four wings in the Carnage Mini) were fun stories so there's potential

  7. #22
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    I hope that they are doing something interesting with, Carnage isn't a bad villain, but he isn't the kind of character that should appear very often.
    Which is the biggest problem with Carnage. he's been massively overused. His introduction was one of my favorite new villains. The idea that he was a 'new venom' that was sooooo tough that Spider-man had to team up with the real Venom who was his scariest villain ever was just epic. Carnage was stronger than Venom and could separate his symbiote into throwing weapons and that was just sweet...

    Maximum Carnage upped the ante by needing a whole horde of heroes to fight back against his chaos...


    Then he became a joke. He's beaten often... he's beaten quickly... He REALLY needed to be killed when he was on top, because he can't overcome his own rookie year. He's a lot like Doomsday and Bane in that fashion every time they trot him out, he's less impressive than he was before.


    Add in that marvel went downright symbiote crazy with anyone and everyone getting them scattered all over new York and even the 'not-Venom Venom' aspect isn't unique anymore. He just breaks out, kills a bunch of people because... Chaos!!! It's pretty much the same as Joker, but without the 80 year pedigree to justify it.

  8. #23
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla2099 View Post
    Red Goblin? Fun story. Impressed Norman was able to master a symbiote so quickly. Figured the Carnage one would be the toughest to obey the host.

    Almost the same opinion. Really pleasing to look at. Especially Alex Ross's Cover. Easily one of my favorites. The fire breathing goblin was awesome. I still don't remember how Norman pulled that part off. He vaccinated his body to be immune to fire so it passed on to the symbiote?

    Thing is, I'm not a fan of Norman either (but I like him more than Kletus). Unlike Kletus, I find Norman more than too complicated. He's just a complete mess. The only Norman Stories I liked actually didn't involve Spider-Man. When his Dark Avengers took on the X-Men and when he tried to play Doom but paid the price for his arrogance. Macendale was by far my favorite goblin

    However, just about every story I read where the Carnage Symbiote goes to another host (Spider-Carnage, Silver Surfer Carnage, the woman who sprouted four wings in the Carnage Mini) were fun stories so there's potential
    From what I remember, combining the Carnage symbiote with Norman's goblin formula-enhanced body counteracted all of the symbiote's previous weaknesses. Speaking of the woman who sprouted wings while bonded to the Carnage symbiote back in the mini that reintroduced him, that would be Dr. Tanis Nieves, who was the psychotherapist for Shriek, Kasady's lover and first recruit in Maximum Carnage, and who later bonded with the techno-organic spawn of the Carnage symbiote, calling herself Scorn. Definitely feel the need to see more of her.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #24
    Incredible Member frizb's Avatar
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    Can't wait for this. I like Carnage & I'm hoping Cate's is able to write a Carnage story that is as brilliant as his Venom story. He's pure gold right now. I think he will redefine Cletus just as he has the entire symbiote race.

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member Godzilla2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    From what I remember, combining the Carnage symbiote with Norman's goblin formula-enhanced body counteracted all of the symbiote's previous weaknesses. Speaking of the woman who sprouted wings while bonded to the Carnage symbiote back in the mini that reintroduced him, that would be Dr. Tanis Nieves, who was the psychotherapist for Shriek, Kasady's lover and first recruit in Maximum Carnage, and who later bonded with the techno-organic spawn of the Carnage symbiote, calling herself Scorn. Definitely feel the need to see more of her.
    I remember Scorn. Really good design

    So does the Carnage Symbiote now have have the weakness to fire once more? So much happened in that issue that didn't give me concrete information. I remember a scene where they thought the Carnage Symbiote was destroyed (but it was on both Norman and the grandson)

    I also didn't know Kletus was a cannibal (but it makes sense)

  11. #26
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Godzilla2099 View Post
    I remember Scorn. Really good design

    So does the Carnage Symbiote now have have the weakness to fire once more? So much happened in that issue that didn't give me concrete information. I remember a scene where they thought the Carnage Symbiote was destroyed (but it was on both Norman and the grandson)

    I also didn't know Kletus was a cannibal (but it makes sense)
    The grandson, Normie, is still hosting a fragment of the Carnage symbiote, and while it's assumed the "main body" of the symbiote burned up while trying to re-bond with Norman, the symbiote's regenerative properties have seen it (and its hosts) survive things that should have killed it.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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