Astonishing X-Men Annual 1 (2018)

[jollygoldfish]

No.

Emma are Mags are trying to be better. Charles is trying to be worse.

No. Charles is the same as he's always been. And once he "tries to be better" by being honest with his terribleness, he'll be on equal footing with Emma and Magneto.

[PsychoEFrost]

No. Charles is the same as he's always been. And once he "tries to be better" by being honest with his terribleness, he'll be on equal footing with Emma and Magneto.

You're making it clear you don't actually want to discuss this, and just want to mindlessly bash Magneto and Emma. Fine. Whatever.

[Havok83]

No. Charles is the same as he's always been. And once he "tries to be better" by being honest with his terribleness, he'll be on equal footing with Emma and Magneto.

Charles has rarely been this overtly ruthless. Most of the "bad things" he's done has been through retcons added years after the fact. X is not consistent with the personality of Charles as he was written in the past but the changes done to him in Soule's run can account for that. This version is one that has learned nothing from past mistakes and is continuing down a dark path

[silence.]

People are saying the reason why Magneto and Emma get a pass even if they've done more terrible things than Xavier for the sake of the "greater good" is because they are honest about their terribleness. Therefore, once Xavier becomes a villain and is honest about his terribleness, then he can get a pass too.



They'd both probably like him better as a villain. They also had a problem with him clinging to his own misconceptions about his moral high ground. Once that's gone, then they can all be honest and bond with each other about their criminally reprehensible ways to a better future.

"Good" Xavier killed his sister and perved on a minor. He's always been terrible. All Emma did was kill a horse and some people who didn't give damn about how their existence was a literal agent for the genocide of a whole species. It's not like she killed a planet of broccoli people or anything. Kindly keep her out of your narrative.

[Heroine Addict]

CBR.com, The Most Important X-Men Missing From Marvel’s Disassembled Teaser

... Writer Charles Soule and a bevy of artists brought Professor X back from the dead in Astonishing X-Men, but with an interesting twist: Fantomex agreed to switch places with Xavier and stay behind in the astral plane, allowing Professor X’s consciousness to inhabit Fantomex’s body. So Charles Xavier is back and going by the name of X, but his personality isn’t the same as when he was initially alive. It’s unclear if Fantomex’s personality is rubbing off on Xavier, but right now he hasn’t proved himself to be totally trustworthy, even going so far as to erase the minds of the Astonishing X-Men team so they would forget he has returned. ...

[jollygoldfish]

You're making it clear you don't actually want to discuss this, and just want to mindlessly bash Magneto and Emma. Fine. Whatever.

No I'm not. I don't understand why Emma and Magneto are given passes while Xavier is not. So what if they're trying to do better? The "better" of Emma and Magneto is still worse than the "worse" of Charles . People here are saying that it's because Emma and Magneto are honest about their terribleness while Xavier is not. Therefore, Xavier should be given a pass if he's honest with himself about his terribleness.

Charles has rarely been this overtly ruthless. Most of the "bad things" he's done has been through retcons added years after the fact. X is not consistent with the personality of Charles as he was written in the past but the changes done to him in Soule's run can account for that. This version is one that has learned nothing from past mistakes and is continuing down a dark path

Yes they've been done through retcons added years after the fact but that's Marvel for you. Their version of "character development". It's canon now that he's always been shady.

[maxhilary]

No.

Emma are Mags are trying to be better. Charles is trying to be worse.

This is the simplest and most accurate way to put it.

[PsychoEFrost]

No I'm not. I don't understand why Emma and Magneto are given passes while Xavier is not. So what if they're trying to do better? The "better" of Emma and Magneto is still worse than the "worse" of Charles . People here are saying that it's because Emma and Magneto are honest about their terribleness while Xavier is not. Therefore, Xavier should be given a pass if he's honest with himself about his terribleness.



Yes they've been done through retcons added years after the fact but that's Marvel for you. Their version of "character development". It's canon now that he's always been shady.

You're ignoring every X-Men issue printed between 1991 and 2017 if you really think Emma's "worse" is worse than the atrocities Xavier has committed.

[The tall man]

You're ignoring every X-Men issue printed between 1991 and 2017 if you really think Emma's "worse" is worse than the atrocities Xavier has committed.

I don't think Xavier was imprisoning his fellow mutants into re-education camps in New Tian or working with Bastion and Miss Sinister to infect mutants with the mothervine formula. Oh but I forgot that was all for the benifit of mutantkind. Everything Emma does is for the betterment of mutants. She is not manipulative, conniving, vindictive and spiteful at all. She's a saint and Xavier is the devil. What a joke.

[PsychoEFrost]

I don't think Xavier was imprisoning his fellow mutants into re-education camps in New Tian or working with Bastion and Miss Sinister to infect mutants with the mothervine formula. Oh but I forgot that was all for the benifit of mutantkind. Everything Emma does is for the betterment of mutants. She is not manipulative, conniving, vindictive and spiteful at all. She's a saint and Xavier is the devil. What a joke.

When you completely misinterpret everything anyone says intentionally, then don't be surprised when people don't respond to you.

[phoenixzero23]

Both characters have done terrible things but are essentialy good people. It's just that comicbook writers want drama.
At one point or another all characters have done or will do bad things, even good guys like Wolverine, Jean and Cyclops (clearly the most notable case). I don't even like Emma but that doesn't mean she is a monster and the same goes for Xavier.

[Nick Miller]

That Abomination is not Xavier.

Attention Soule, it’s a failure.

Please have Logan gut him, real soon. Kthanksbye.

[King_Thor13]

Eh, I don’t know to feel about it at this point.

Wouldn't you want Betsy and Warren on UXM or another X-Men title Post-Disassemble? And idk, I think grouping them with X just means they'd be the morally compromised X-Men, and that's a bit of a tired concept, especially in regards to Archangel.

People are saying the reason why Magneto and Emma get a pass even if they've done more terrible things than Xavier for the sake of the "greater good" because they are honest about their terribleness. Therefore, once Xavier becomes a villain and is honest about his terribleness, then he can get a pass too.

They'd both probably like him better as a villain. They also had a problem with him clinging to his own misconceptions about his moral high ground. Once that's gone, then they can all be honest and bond with each other about their criminally reprehensible ways to a better future.

They don't "get a pass". I certainly haven't said that, and I can't find anyone else saying as much either. They've both done committed horrible acts in their time, and they've atoned for most of them. Xavier always reminded me of a politician- and that's not a compliment. And I think your logic there is flawed, why would him becoming even worse help win favor? As for a Xavier/Magneto/Emma Frost trinity, they're too alike in their stubbornness and self-motivation to work together. Not to mention the numerous occassions they've been at odds in the past.

[yogaflame]

This issue was a bit better than people made it out to be.

Agreed; lots of interesting craft here.

Because he’s better than Cyclops. Who is also a psycho.

lol!

I really liked how X is a such a bastard. Very classic Xavier.

Exactly. This is classic Xavier, magnified a bit, but I don't think many people have actually read the original run enough to understand him. Xavier was mindwiping whole towns left and right, putting the kids through hoops on fire and grading them. Very harsh, very pragmatic. And he wasn't some old, kind grandpa either. He was 10 years after the war. It's explicitly stated, and if you work in his later background history of going to college early and his relationship with Moira, it works out that he would have only been in his early 30's in the original run. Even Morrison had him as only "41" when he was dying in his run. Patrick Stewart's version skewed comic Xavier much older than he was originally presented.

Careful with that, Marvel sent a lot of free copies after retailers did not order what they hoped. It ranked 48th in dollars while X-Men Red #6 was 43rd indicating retailers order more of Red. Dollar-wise (which would be closer to amount actually ordered) it landed right between the two issues of Gold.

Hmm. The devil is in the details...

The crown jewel of this annual was Bobby comparing his 2lbs-in-under-a-minute-burger-consumption to Jean's phoenix-driven-eating-disorder.

And people are saying X is ruthless!

Too many of the core cast are morally compromised beyond rehabilitation at this point. Just a bunch of dysfunctional assholes. No one left to root for.

**** it. Time to drop the continuity bomb, and start over. No more deconstruction. No more cynical, gray-and-black morality. Get a Kurt Busiek or a Geoff Johns type to reboot the X-Men as heroes again--likable, sympathetic people worth spending time with. Bring them back as people I want to see succeed, not a bunch of morally handicapped anti-heroes I'd rather see brought to justice.

After Secret Wars, Marvel should've left the 616 X-titles dead and just run with X-Men '92 as the new core title. THOSE were the X-Men as they should be. I liked those X-Men. I enjoyed reading their stories. They're good people.

If I want depressing, hypocritical assholery, I'll watch the news.

I get some of this sentiment, but overall, good X-Men stories always have some darkness in there. That's really what made the 90's TAS so cool, it was a kid's show, but it was also critical and suspicious of the military industrial system, confronted slavery and genocide, dealt with prejudice and oppression. I do think the last 15 years of the franchise have erred too far into the darkness, and leaned into a lot of lazy violence and shock and awe tactics instead of actually carefully cultivating moving stories, but there must always be a balance. In the end, X did stop an alien from taking over the world, even if we are still left with this messed up world.

Lol they tried that and it did not sell and I'm happy it did not sell

It didn't quite work. There's a place for something like that, but the execution was a bit off.

They'd both probably like him better as a villain. They also had a problem with him clinging to his own misconceptions about his moral high ground. Once that's gone, then they can all be honest and bond with each other about their criminally reprehensible ways to a better future.

Is it because of their "complexity"? That they are grey characters who straddle the line between hero and villain (anti-heroes)? That they are pragmatically ruthless? How different is that from Xavier? Do people like Emma and Magneto then because they are good looking and don't like Xavier because he's bald and looks like Mr. Clean?

lol, for real!

It truly boggles the mind that Xavier gets treated so bad and characters like Emma gets praise.... In closing, Xavier/X is a great addition to the landscape of the X-men, and dispite the haters I hope he's around and prominent for the foreseeable future.

Hear hear!

Xavier was introduced as the benevolent mentor of the X-Men

Again, refer back to the original run, please and thank you. Maybe you only saw the Fox-Men movies, but Xavier was introduced as a strict, pragmatic disciplinarian, a war veteran, and was unapologetic in his dealings, no matter what they may be.

So Magneto and Emma are given a pass because before they wanted to use their terrible actions for evil and now they want to use their terrible actions for good? While Xavier who has always wanted to use his terrible actions for good is not? That's unfair.

Amen.

I don't think Xavier was imprisoning his fellow mutants into re-education camps in New Tian or working with Bastion and Miss Sinister to infect mutants with the mothervine formula. Oh but I forgot that was all for the benifit of mutantkind. Everything Emma does is for the betterment of mutants. She is not manipulative, conniving, vindictive and spiteful at all. She's a saint and Xavier is the devil. What a joke.

That part doesn't count! lol

[TheCape]

I'm not really going to say who i consider worse beetween Xavier, Magneto and Emma (they are pretty crappy people as far as i'm concerned), but Xavier did admit in Claremont's run around Uncanny X-Men 150 that him and Erik weren't so different from eacth other, even if the 2000s had gone to far in that side of his charactherization.