Astonishing X-Men Annual 1 (2018)

[PsychoEFrost]

The whataboutism.argument does not change the fact that Xavier took the O5s autonomy away from them which is what is so awful in this issue. Their lives are due to him making that decision for them. He controlled them literally, and emotionally down to what they wear and think. They are his mind, body and soul.
Th.Xmen was founded on a grubby old man's perversion.

Exactly. I really hope that editorial isn't just setting this as a normal thing, and X gets comeuppance for this. It was slimy start to finish.

[PsychoEFrost]

So when Emma goes from cackling villain trying to rule the world and make slaves of anyone who stands in her way, to "fighting to prove loyalty to the team", and then mind controls the team into being her slaves, and switches back to being a villain, it's not hypocritical. But when Xavier coerces the team into taking out a literal alien thought demon who would have taken over the whole world, and then mindwipes them into being happy instead of bitchy douches, he's evil incarnate? Ok, gotcha.

Now you're just being deliberately obtuse to attack a character you don't like. Please stop.

[yogaflame]

The whataboutism.argument does not change the fact that Xavier took the O5s autonomy away from them which is what is so awful in this issue. Their lives are due to him making that decision for them. He controlled them literally, and emotionally down to what they wear and think. They are his mind, body and soul.
Th.Xmen was founded on a grubby old man's perversion.

The whatsboutism argument is lazy one.

So, Xavier making the team, which has gone on to save the world and universe multiple times, is worse than Emma being an S/M actual mindwiper and corrupter of children so she could be rich and powerful?

[PsychoEFrost]

So, Xavier making the team, which has gone on to save the world and universe multiple times, is worse than Emma being an S/M actual mindwiper and corrupter of children so she could be rich and powerful?

You're ignoring all context period to attack a character you don't like. Please stop.

[thanoswasright]

I agree no big issue.

[yogaflame]

I agree no big issue.

Excuse me if I don't take morality cues from someone who advocates universal genocide....

[Psyknight]

This issue was very interesting.

As Knives answered, it is kind of there in the last page, even though nothing is said. I don't think there would be a reason for the last panel to be Warren sitten, sad, while the others are happy and anaware of what has happened.

I think X really expected Warren to act that way, and since he did, he chose not to erase his memories. I think it's very interesting. X gave Warren, in Astonishing 12, the choice to be Angel, Archangel or simply Warren, whatever he "needed". I believe Warren needed his Archangel persona to kill Lucifer, to not feel so guilty about it. But in the end, he just said that it was really his idea in Angel form, it was the only way.

That's what I think it is so interesting about this issue. A lot is there for you to think about. I think X is planning something for the X-men who might have the same goals as him. Maybe he saw that in Betsy and now Warren, and that is why they are the only ones he allowed to remember him.

I’m beginning to think so too.

[ExodusCloak]

So, Xavier making the team, which has gone on to save the world and universe multiple times, is worse than Emma being an S/M actual mindwiper and corrupter of children so she could be rich and powerful?

That's where you're mistaken. Xavier manipulated a group of children into saving the world multiple times. There was no team just his own personal army and his decision making was unilateral.

And it's been argued in the X-books that it was so he could be untouchable by the US government.
Also not sure why you put S&M in there or what that has to do with being "evil"

[ExodusCloak]

Excuse me if I don't take morality cues from someone who advocates universal genocide....

Xavier committed Xenocide. And most of the X-Men have at some stage Beast at Least 3 times but his mentor was Xavier

[ExodusCloak]

In the issue it's also shown that Xavier uses his powers to get rich again despite the X-Men having control of the estate. And that he also corrupted children. So those points go both ways

[yogaflame]

That's where you're mistaken. Xavier manipulated a group of children into saving the world multiple times. There was no team just his own personal army and his decision making was unilateral.

And it's been argued in the X-books that it was so he could be untouchable by the US government.

If Xavier hadn't acted:

Scott would have been manipulated by a diamond-skinned telepath into a life of petty crime. Facts.

Hank would have been enslaved by the Conquistador. Facts.

Bobby would have been lynched by his townspeople with the help of the police. Facts.

Jean would have stayed in a catatonic stupor. Facts.

Maybe Warren would have been okay on his own, but not the others.

Further, the entire world would have been destroyed by the Z'Nox aliens if he hadn't gone into seclusion and prepared a plan that utilized his expertly trained 'child soldiers'(who were all over 18 by then) in perfect tandem.

[yogaflame]

Xavier committed Xenocide. And most of the X-Men have at some stage Beast at Least 3 times but his mentor was Xavier

I'm talking about Thanos boy over there. Thanos, who had infinite power to do whatever he wanted, thought killing half the universe was the only way to properly manage resources... What a failure of imagination.

[ExodusCloak]

If Xavier hadn't acted:

Scott would have been manipulated by a diamond-skinned telepath into a life of petty crime. Facts.

Hank would have been enslaved by the Conquistador. Facts.

Bobby would have been lynched by his townspeople with the help of the police. Facts.

Jean would have stayed in a catatonic stupor. Facts.

Maybe Warren would have been okay on his own, but not the others.

Further, the entire world would have been destroyed by the Z'Nox aliens if he hadn't gone into seclusion and prepared a plan that utilized his expertly trained 'child soldiers'(who were all over 18 by then) in perfect tandem.

Maybe, maybe not. That's not a fact. Time is fluid. Unless you have What if stories you'd wish to share nothing you stated is fact. And even then it's only a possible future.

[yogaflame]

So those points go both ways

That's my main point here.

[yogaflame]

Maybe, maybe not. That's not a fact. Time is fluid. Unless you have What if stories you'd wish to share nothing you stated is fact. And even then it's only a possible future.

If you read their origin stories from the original run, this is no speculation.