How Strong Is Captain America?

[Gamma Burst]

Honestly, as much as I love the OHBOTMU, I prefer ranges over hard numbers. Seems like there was a backup feature in an annual one time trying to explain how strong Spider-Man (I think) was. They presented the characters in groups: Thor, Herc and Hulk were part of one crowd, and Cap, Panther, and DD in another, with a great many groups along the way in between (Spidey did not like how low a group he fell into).

They divided the groups into Super-Heavyweights, Heavyweights, Super- Mediumweights, Mediumweights and the ones without super strength.

Actually, Spidey didn't have a problem with his class, the Super- Mediumweights; it was a nice bunch at that time: Valkyrie, She-Hulk, Colossus, Ghost Rider, and more. He even said:This is my strength class, folks. A nice bunch, really. Of course none of them have my amazing speed, agility or other spider-like powers...

Captain, along with Daredevil, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. were in the lowest class, without super strength.

I guress you can still find it in here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profi...-heroes/20380/

[Mantis Dad]

In Comics only; what is the greatest strength feat Steve has ever been shown doing with just his normal Super Soldier formula?

[GrandEleven]

Guys are missing a golden opportunity to pull out crazy feats of strength. Like Rogers yanking a helicopter out of the sky:

[responsarbre]

When you get into the nitty-gritty of "normal" vs. "peak" vs. "super" human, you'll realize that most everyone in the Marvel Universe is capable of unimaginable feats. It starts with the "normal" humans having unrealistic strength, stamina, and agility, which means the "peak" humans have to be even more impressive, and the superhumans have to be even more impressive than that.

Who's to say how strong any of these characters really are?

Guys are missing a golden opportunity to pull out crazy feats of strength. Like Rogers yanking a helicopter out of the sky:

I've read and reread Ellis' Secret Avengers so many times, but I never noticed that Steve is actually pulling down that helicopter.

I think the Russos/Markus/McFeely were distinctly inspired by Ellis' Secret Avengers when they were working on the Cap movies. I can see this scene being the inspiration for the helicopter scene in Civil War. And I think that a lot of Cap and Black Widow's dynamic in Winter Soldier was lifted straight from their interactions in Secret Avengers 16 and 19.

[JKtheMac]

On a scale of 1 to Z, he's "peppermint".

I am detecting a hint of apple pie crust. Is that stronger or weaker than peppermint?

[DigiCom]

I am detecting a hint of apple pie crust. Is that stronger or weaker than peppermint?

It depends on the nutmeg.

[DrNewGod]

They divided the groups into Super-Heavyweights, Heavyweights, Super- Mediumweights, Mediumweights and the ones without super strength.

Actually, Spidey didn't have a problem with his class, the Super- Mediumweights; it was a nice bunch at that time: Valkyrie, She-Hulk, Colossus, Ghost Rider, and more. He even said:This is my strength class, folks. A nice bunch, really. Of course none of them have my amazing speed, agility or other spider-like powers...

Captain, along with Daredevil, Wolverine, Iron Fist, etc. were in the lowest class, without super strength.

I guress you can still find it in here: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profi...-heroes/20380/

Ah! It was The Thing I was thinking of. Thanks!

[Alan2099]

Captain America exists in that strange gray area between "impossibly strong action hero type" and "Well now he's just blatantly superhuman" occassionally crossing over one way or the other.

[Samson3191]

Just like any other character, it fluctuates over time and from writer to writer. In hindsight I think that phrase “peak human” could be disregarded. Just say he’s a SUPER soldier, like he is. I personally prefer the super soldier serum having an emphasis on SUPER. Above Batman, definitely not as strong as Spider-Man, but somewhere in that area. Like Brubaker started, basically.

[Panic]

Part of the issue is that several writers in the past stressed that what made Captain America so admirable is that he does what he does without any super-powered augmentation. I think most of the current writers at Marvel are Cap fans who want to have their cake and eat it - they've got so used to saying that Cap is better than other heroes because he has no super-powers that they won't give that up... but they also want him to have super-powers!

[XPac]

Just like any other character, it fluctuates over time and from writer to writer. In hindsight I think that phrase “peak human” could be disregarded. Just say he’s a SUPER soldier, like he is. I personally prefer the super soldier serum having an emphasis on SUPER. Above Batman, definitely not as strong as Spider-Man, but somewhere in that area. Like Brubaker started, basically.

I think the idea of the peak human designation was so they could have their cake and eat it to, as far as Cap was concerned.

It placed him in an elevated status from guys like Daredevil or Batman or whatever, but still allowed them to play the "he's still just a man" card. And I personally thought thinking of him as the peak of human perfection just sounded cooler than thinking of him as a low level meta human. He's the top of the humans, rather than the bottom of the metas.

[JKtheMac]

Part of the issue is that several writers in the past stressed that what made Captain America so admirable is that he does what he does without any super-powered augmentation. I think most of the current writers at Marvel are Cap fans who want to have their cake and eat it - they've got so used to saying that Cap is better than other heroes because he has no super-powers that they won't give that up... but they also want him to have super-powers!

I started reading your point thinking I need to respond and give a different perspective but by the end you convinced me this is exactly the issue with him. Personally I see him as superhero augmented but you are spot on that they also try and suggest he isn’t and give him credit for that.

The underlying archetype back at the beginning was clearly based on going from unenlistable but with the right heart to the best a soldier can be and a little more. A wish fulfilment character for those that couldn’t join the war and a person to aspire to for those who could.

Bringing him back into The Avengers technically promoted him. Maybe not immediately, but certainly by the time we had Hawkeye he was a character that was ‘other’. He was no longer quite one of us, he was a time traveling super human. It was still possible to say he was just a very strong guy but it couldn’t quite ring true.

[Samson3191]

I think the idea of the peak human designation was so they could have their cake and eat it to, as far as Cap was concerned.

It placed him in an elevated status from guys like Daredevil or Batman or whatever, but still allowed them to play the "he's still just a man" card. And I personally thought thinking of him as the peak of human perfection just sounded cooler than thinking of him as a low level meta human. He's the top of the humans, rather than the bottom of the metas.

I think you’re right. But to me, guys like Daredevil or Batman have gadgets and stealth at their side. Making Cap a SUPER soldier is, to me, totally fine and works better. He’s still outclassed by just about everyone, so the underdog/“just a man” theme still applies IMO.

[DrNewGod]

I started reading your point thinking I need to respond and give a different perspective but by the end you convinced me this is exactly the issue with him. Personally I see him as superhero augmented but you are spot on that they also try and suggest he isn’t and give him credit for that.

The underlying archetype back at the beginning was clearly based on going from unenlistable but with the right heart to the best a soldier can be and a little more. A wish fulfilment character for those that couldn’t join the war and a person to aspire to for those who could.

Bringing him back into The Avengers technically promoted him. Maybe not immediately, but certainly by the time we had Hawkeye he was a character that was ‘other’. He was no longer quite one of us, he was a time traveling super human. It was still possible to say he was just a very strong guy but it couldn’t quite ring true.

Another limitation is that writers and editors need characters like Crossbones, Zemo, Batroc, and The Red Skull (not quiet such an issue since putting his brain in a Cap Clone body, but it was prior to that) to represent a credible, physical threat to him.

[JKtheMac]

Another limitation is that writers and editors need characters like Crossbones, Zemo, Batroc, and The Red Skull (not quiet such an issue since putting his brain in a Cap Clone body, but it was prior to that) to represent a credible, physical threat to him.

Is that a limitation? The standard method of building a villain is to reflect an aspect of the protagonist with a twisted or inverted element. Something that allows the stories to further illuminate the main character. All of these characters do that in one way or another and most of them have presumably changed over the years to maintain that reflection. I am not an expert on Cap but your own example suggests that Red Skull has changed to better reflect Steve, and we have seen recently an inversion of Cap himself to do a similar job. Good writers will always find ways to adapt and explore their characters.