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  1. #46
    Extraordinary Member MichaelC's Avatar
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    That's not some "unseen potential". We know why that works: our muscles actually have quite a bit more power than our structural design can handle. The women who do that sort of thing also crack vertebrae and damage the muscle and tendons and basically permanently reduce their health and capabilities for a few seconds of strength. The muscles themselves are controlled by a part of the brain that normally suppresses the activation of all the muscle cells at once. It's just evolution at work: you can't perform acts of strength that would damage your ability to survive and reproduce, unless your brain decides that you absolutely must do so right this second or you will either die or your children will die.

  2. #47
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Now that we've addressed his strength, let's discuss his shield and body armor. Because I hate seeing his foes deliberately direct their attacks at his shield, which barely covers his torso, let alone his entire body. Even characters with devastating omnidirectional "all area effect" attacks somehow always manage to fire at his shield. (I'm looking at you Firelord, Human Torch, Monica Rambeau, Silver Surfer, etc., etc., etc.) Utterly ridiculous!
    I've always head-cannoned that away by assuming half of the shield's effectiveness is Cap's ability to get it between him and an attacker at the best angle to make use of its properties. It's the same kind of cognitive hand-waving that I use to account for how it can be thrown at some targets and behave like a bludgeon, while that same edge behaves like a buzz-saw against other targets.

  3. #48
    Pro Mutant Anarchist's Avatar
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    As strong as the plot needs him to be that day. Cap is kind of an authors pet that way.

  4. #49
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelC View Post
    That's not some "unseen potential". We know why that works: our muscles actually have quite a bit more power than our structural design can handle. The women who do that sort of thing also crack vertebrae and damage the muscle and tendons and basically permanently reduce their health and capabilities for a few seconds of strength. The muscles themselves are controlled by a part of the brain that normally suppresses the activation of all the muscle cells at once. It's just evolution at work: you can't perform acts of strength that would damage your ability to survive and reproduce, unless your brain decides that you absolutely must do so right this second or you will either die or your children will die.
    So theoretically, the Super-Soldier Serum would've simply fortified said human structural design to better handle exerting that kind of strength on a more frequent basis as opposed to just "in case of extreme emergency."
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  5. #50
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    I've always head-cannoned that away by assuming half of the shield's effectiveness is Cap's ability to get it between him and an attacker at the best angle to make use of its properties. It's the same kind of cognitive hand-waving that I use to account for how it can be thrown at some targets and behave like a bludgeon, while that same edge behaves like a buzz-saw against other targets.
    I get that, but like I said, against a foe who has the ability to create the kind of blast wave that is larger than Cap's entire shield, writers somehow always reduce those foes to directing an attack at Cap's shield.

    Take Monica Rambeau for example. She can be ambient light, even invisible EM waves that Cap can't see. In close proximity and moving at the speed of light, Monica could hit him nearly instantaneously from all directions, whether Steve was prepared for the attack or not. Imagine standing in a dark room with a trash can lid and having someone turn on multiple lamps positioned around the room. Good luck keeping all of the light from illuminating some aspect of your person. Now imagine if that wasn't just harmless photons, but microwaves or gamma ray radiation. Toast. You would be toast.

    Cap may be fast, but he can't block all of his exposed areas all at once. Nevertheless, what we usually see from writers is Monica directing a visible beam of energy directly at Cap's shield. It's that kind of nonsense that drives me nuts. Monica isn't an idiot. She's one of the better Avengers leaders and strategists. But even if she was a complete moron, anyone with Monica's powers would figure out very quickly how to attack Steve and win.
    Last edited by JudicatorPrime; 08-20-2018 at 05:00 PM.

  6. #51
    Cosmic Curmudgeon JudicatorPrime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    So theoretically, the Super-Soldier Serum would've simply fortified said human structural design to better handle exerting that kind of strength on a more frequent basis as opposed to just "in case of extreme emergency."
    Well, we know that Steve heals faster than your average human courtesy of the SSS. I imagine it also makes his bone structure more durable in order for him to be as fast as he is given the additional muscle mass. But peak human bone structure would probably still be relatively fragile. I think that's why you usually see them indicate that characters with really high strength capacity also have denser bone structure and muscle tissue.

  7. #52
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JudicatorPrime View Post
    Well, we know that Steve heals faster than your average human courtesy of the SSS. I imagine it also makes his bone structure more durable in order for him to be as fast as he is given the additional muscle mass. But peak human bone structure would probably still be relatively fragile. I think that's why you usually see them indicate that characters with really high strength capacity also have denser bone structure and muscle tissue.
    Hmm, that's a good point; a character with actual super-strength would need to have a reinforced musculoskeletal structure to keep themselves from breaking under the strain of the weight they were trying to lift or move, or the force they were trying to exert.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #53
    Ultimate Member jackolover's Avatar
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    So Cap isn’t as strong as Spider-Man and nowhere near as strong as Hercules. Spidey is like a 3 Tonne lifter, Herc maybe 100 Tonne lifter. If Cap is close to a 1Tonne lifter, and a man can lift 75kg, then Cap has the strength of 14 men?

  9. #54
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    We narrowed it down to 5 men using the Marvel numbers.

  10. #55
    Astonishing Member Panic's Avatar
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    Spidey can lift up to 10 tons.

  11. #56
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    So Cap isn’t as strong as Spider-Man and nowhere near as strong as Hercules. Spidey is like a 3 Tonne lifter, Herc maybe 100 Tonne lifter. If Cap is close to a 1Tonne lifter, and a man can lift 75kg, then Cap has the strength of 14 men?
    Pretty sure Spidey's stronger than that. I seem to remember that TOHOMU had him at 10 tons (US), which is closer to 9.1 metric tons.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    Pretty sure Spidey's stronger than that. I seem to remember that TOHOMU had him at 10 tons (US), which is closer to 9.1 metric tons.
    He was at the 10 ton level when he was young. He's a mature adult now, I imagine he's probably closer to 15 tons.

  13. #58
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    The Official Handbook takes post-Secret Wars 1 Spidey into consideration so he's already an adult. 15 tons was his Sipder-Queen power-up and 20+ tons was the Other evolution power-up and apparently those got taken away.

  14. #59
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triniking1234 View Post
    The Official Handbook takes post-Secret Wars 1 Spidey into consideration so he's already an adult. 15 tons was his Sipder-Queen power-up and 20+ tons was the Other evolution power-up and apparently those got taken away.
    True, though while the Official Handbook puts his strength at being able to lift 10 tons, he has been shown to at least support significantly greater weights from time to time, particularly in the famous scene from "If This Be My Destiny" way back in ASM 33 by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. Of course, that could be his version of an adrenaline boost, so . . .
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #60
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    BITD he was peak human I think ht MU guide listed him as lifting about 800 lbs.

    But it usually comes down to he is just strong enough to solve the issue.

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