The Shrike vs. The God Emperor of Mankind

[Pendaran]

I'm nowhere near the books at the moment, but the Shrike can be anywhere and anywhen it likes - it's an absolute key to it's functionality.

And there is never a delay in it coming back to the same place, because it never actually tries to do so. But it repeatedly goes where and when it wants, and sends others also. Statements from beings who know back this up as well, but you know, statements. The Shrike is killed off panel once, but this has absolutely no effect on its ability to deal with anything throughout the stories.

Even the post just below yours makes it difficult to take your estimations of the Shrike's capacity at face value.

So... based on what.

As far as other people accurately refuting what I've stated, eh, not really.

You say a thing. They describe the book saying nothing like the thing you say.

As far as TDK's questions: Swiss Guard armor is the stuff that is directly stated to be nuke proof - by someone who would absolutely know.

I'd settle for even a quote at this point.

The Shrike kills thousands of Swiss Guard plus thousands of other soldiers plus the entire crew of a gigantic fleet of starships throughout a solar system in a second, and does it by ripping the bodies apart and precisely removing 100% of a parisitic organism from every single one of them, an organism consisting of kilometers of microscopic fibers throughout the entire body. It's one of it's major speed feats. And it's confirmed by sensors and the Core that it does it one by one. And it involves ripping through those nuke-proof armors and shields to accomplish this.

Apparently not.

And the Shrike flat out ignores the monowire, and flat out can't be cut by the Nemes closes going all out except in one instance, but again, the Shrike has some weird PIS kind of moments, which are later totally refuted by other feats.

It's increasingly difficult to say the Shrike performing at less than your estimation of it is PIS when people keep noting issues in your estimation of it.

[big_adventure]

This came up in the JLA thread linked earlier, the above is not a completely accurate account of what happened.

It was 30 seconds, it was 60% of the fleet, it involved apparent use of time clones, many soldiers were reported as being killed in the panicked crossfire and the Cruciform was not widespread at that time so we don't know if it had to vivisect the guards or not.

It's still very fast but there's a lot of caveats.

Uh, no. The cruciform was totally widespread among the pax forces, and was in over 87% iirc of the human population of pax worlds BEFORE that: Raul narrates this at the beginning of Endymion, before the appearance of Anaea and the opening of the tombs. I don't believe it was 30 seconds either, but in any case I'm not in front of the books to check. And I'm equally pretty sure that it didn't involve clones, as that was brought up in the discussion in the book and it's specifically mentioned that it was all done sequentially by just the one Shrike. On the ground and in all of the starships. And yes, it was only 60% of the entire Pax fleet, but that's the ships that were in Hyperion space: they didn't have their entire fleet local. In any case, it's tens of thousands of troops and crew, every single one of them carrying the cruciform, because every pax serviceperson has that.

And it's generally thought by both the humans and AIs that it is impossible to cut out even one cruciform, no matter how much time you take. Even if it was 30 seconds, it's a ridiculous feat.

[The Arbiter]

It was 30 seconds. I will respond in detail tonight with actual quotes from the books in regards to Pens questions, big's claims and Dorks response. Hold tight.

[The Arbiter]

If you can address the "farcast to the big bang" or.. any of it, feel free.

In "Rise of Endymion", chapter 30, Aenea and Raul notice that the kilometer long Tree Ship Yggdrasil has cast out of the system and several hundred years backwards in time to the point of the original book. Soooo... like almost 300 years and across a big chunk of the galaxy.


Im writing a second post now to address some other stuff.

[Pendaran]

In "Rise of Endymion", chapter 30, Aenea and Raul notice that the kilometer long Tree Ship Yggdrasil has cast out of the system and several hundred years backwards in time to the point of the original book. Soooo... like almost 300 years and across a big chunk of the galaxy.


Im writing a second post now to address some other stuff.

And the Shrike did that by just willing it so? That's explicitly noted? Was the Shrike, for instance, on the ship?

[The Arbiter]

And the Shrike did that by just willing it so? That's explicitly noted? Was the Shrike, for instance, on the ship?

I'll write out the full quote. Just putting the kids to bed. 20 mins?

[Pendaran]

At your leisure really, threads don't have time expiry dates so long as you don't wait months or something ;p

[The Arbiter]

At your leisure really, threads don't have time expiry dates so long as you don't wait months or something ;p

....that reminds me. I did in fact promise to follow up on a point Captain Morgan made several months ago. Shhhh... dont tell him >_>

Anyways here is the full quote typed out. Its word for word despite whatever grammar issues i may have added lol:

---

“The Yggdrasill just ’cast out of system. Did either of you feel it?”

I closed my eyes to concentrate on the dream flow of voices and images that were ever under the surface there now. There was … an absence. A vision of flame as the outer branches began to burn. “The fields collapsed just as they ’cast away,” I said. “How did they ’cast without you, Aenea?” I saw the answer as soon as I had verbalized the question. “The Shrike,” I said.

“Yes.” Aenea was still holding my hand. The rain was cold on us and I could hear it gurgling down gutters and drainpipes behind us. She spoke very quietly. “The Shrike will carry the Yggdrasill and the True Voice of the Tree away through space and time. To his … destiny.”

---

So, it all happens off screen. Its not clear on if the Shrike is on board or not. It should be noted that where the ship was, is a laaarge distance away from Hyperion, which is where it went.

Actually, we do have sooome context for the feat but it involves comparing it to the on screen feat of Aenea. She also has the ability to freecast and in fact does so to this same ship i believe. She is on the ship at the time. I dont have that quote found yet, but iirc the effort drained her a little bit.

For what its worth, I do get the impression that the Shrike needs to be at the very least within sight range of whatever he moves. He doesnt need to touch it, based on his fight with Kassad where he flings him into the far future, but still has to be kinda in proximity.

[Pendaran]

So, it all happens off screen. Its not clear on if the Shrike is on board or not.

The problem of that not being clear, and that the other performance is someone casting a ship that they are travelling in, and the other example being where he is in direct combat with a guy is that it doesn't especially lend to the idea of that he can do it to whoever in whatever circumstances.

If for instance he has to approach the Lantern to fling him through time/space, he has to do that, while at the same time fighting the Flash.

edit: Also if he has to close, that gives Wally time just fine for "give Green Lantern all my speed". At which point...

Unless the Shrike has ranged attacks they can unload on the Flash from the get go to get him having to deal with that instead, but it seems like that would have come up by now.

[big_adventure]

The problem of that not being clear, and that the other performance is someone casting a ship that they are travelling in, and the other example being where he is in direct combat with a guy is that it doesn't especially lend to the idea of that he can do it to whoever in whatever circumstances.

If for instance he has to approach the Lantern to fling him through time/space, he has to do that, while at the same time fighting the Flash.

edit: Also if he has to close, that gives Wally time just fine for "give Green Lantern all my speed". At which point...

Unless the Shrike has ranged attacks they can unload on the Flash from the get go to get him having to deal with that instead, but it seems like that would have come up by now.

Sounds like you are picking tiny threads there.

Arby noted himself that the Shrike doesn't touch Kassad to launch him in time. The Shrike also farcasts Aenea's group without touching them or being with them, he does this on the same planet where he ko's Nemes while she's in phase-shifts by suddenly appearing in front of her and striking faster than she can react, and killing Nemes' "brother" by physically dominating him in phase time and ripping off his head.

Yes, Aenea casts the Yggdrasl many times, as she's the motor for the original diaspora of her disciples. She just has to be able to see the stars/sky to do it, so she fails at this during the Pax's combined attack on the ship. The Shrike does not have this limitation, as it transports the ship through space and time just fine thanks during the attack.

Also, the every-bit-as-fast-as-Wally Shrike can teleport just fine thanks, so he can just teleport into Wally at the bell if he so desires. Big spikes win. Especially if Wally starts dumping his speed, and once the spike is bisecting Wally's brain, oops, no more speed to dump.

[Pendaran]

Sounds like you are picking tiny threads there.

As opposed to making claims about power use that end up being based on nothing that actually happened, to the point of bordering on no limits fallacies?

Arby noted himself that the Shrike doesn't touch Kassad to launch him in time.

He does it while engaged in a direct fight with him.

The Shrike also farcasts Aenea's group without touching them or being with them, he does this on the same planet where he ko's Nemes while she's in phase-shifts by suddenly appearing in front of her and striking faster than she can react, and killing Nemes' "brother" by physically dominating him in phase time and ripping off his head.

I'm going to have to wait for someone else to verify any of that given how most of your claims about this character have turned out to this point.

Yes, Aenea casts the Yggdrasl many times, as she's the motor for the original diaspora of her disciples. She just has to be able to see the stars/sky to do it, so she fails at this during the Pax's combined attack on the ship. The Shrike does not have this limitation, as it transports the ship through space and time just fine thanks during the attack.

Was the Shrike on the ship, or not?

Also, the every-bit-as-fast-as-Wally Shrike

Given the big speed feat you touted for this itself got downgraded, this is starting to feel like a thing people mostly just keep repeating.

[Captain Morgan]

S. Big spikes win. Especially if Wally starts dumping his speed, and once the spike is bisecting Wally's brain, oops, no more speed to dump.

Setting aside your interpretation of Shrike's abilities being completely out of line with other posters in the thread who have read the books, this part simply isn't true and has been explained to you more than once. Once Wally starts dumping speed, the speed is just dumped. There is no gradual process and it doesn't matter if Wally is still alive. This was a specific plot point during the first Hunter Zolomon arc. It leaves the Flash doing the speed dump as a vulnerable statue for the immediate future, but it doesn't matter because the recipient already has all their speed. In this example, killing Wally doesn't slow down Kyle.

[Carabas]

How long do the effects of speed-dumping last?

[The Dork Knight]

How long do the effects of speed-dumping last?

For the JLA here, not long at all considering the Flash can bring them back each time. As in the Flash has had specific stories where he engages in battles through time instantaneously from the perspective of regular folks

[Pendaran]

For the JLA here, not long at all considering the Flash can bring them back each time. As in the Flash has had specific stories where he engages in battles through time instantaneously from the perspective of regular folks

I would imagine they're referring to the Flash giving his speed to someone else.

In which case, long enough for a fight, as far as what we've seen of that.