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  1. #31
    Astonishing Member krazijoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Franny6422 View Post
    Still think 'Dark Nights, Metal' should had been titled 'Dark Crisis.' Dark Nights?
    Probably should have been labeled Charmin...Or maybe Scott's.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    Infinite Crisis and 52 are both well worth your time. If you want, you can stop there.

    Final Crisis has tenuous connections (at best) and while an okay read, isn't the masterpiece some have convinced themselves it is...
    That can be said for a lot of Morrison's work! A good imagination doesn't automatically make one a great writer!

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    That can be said for a lot of Morrison's work! A good imagination doesn't automatically make one a great writer!
    Morrison’s weird in that he’s incredible thematically and with concepts but his dialogue kind of bogs it up and he has pacing issues that really obscure some of the great things he’s doing.

    Final Crisis is one of those

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrNewGod View Post
    First issue in, you'll have no problem finishing it. I especially loved Booster's story
    52 actually made me a fan of Booster. Prior to 52, I couldn't stand him...he just never clicked with me. I don't know why, but after reading his story in 52 I just suddenly enjoyed his other stories. Like seeing them with new eyes, I guess.

    For anyone who doesn't know, graphicaudio.net has some AMAZING DC audiobooks...they are based on the novelizations of DC stories, and their tagline is: "A Movie In Your Mind." And they are right. Voice actors, sound effects, music, and narration all come together wonderfully. I own many of them, but their audiobooks of Infinite Crisis and 52 are simply fantastic. I've lost count of how many times I've listened to them.
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Clark_Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KNIGHT OF THE LAKE View Post
    Morrison’s weird in that he’s incredible thematically and with concepts but his dialogue kind of bogs it up and he has pacing issues that really obscure some of the great things he’s doing.

    Final Crisis is one of those
    This is one of the things I love about comics (well, art and entertainment in general), the subjectivity of it all. I have the opposite opinion, and I would even go so far as to say Final Crisis is my favorite DC story of all time. I hated it as it came out in single issues, but reading it all together just clicked for me. The themes, the desperation of the heroes, Darkseid wins! (for a while, anyway), Superman Freaking Beyond...I love it.
    "Darkseid...always hated music..."

    Every post I make, it should be assumed by the reader that the following statement is attached: "It's all subjective. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for you, and vice versa, and that's ok. You may have a different opinion on it, but this is mine. That's the wonderful thing about being a comics fan, it's all subjective."

  6. #36
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clark_Kent View Post
    This is one of the things I love about comics (well, art and entertainment in general), the subjectivity of it all. I have the opposite opinion, and I would even go so far as to say Final Crisis is my favorite DC story of all time. I hated it as it came out in single issues, but reading it all together just clicked for me. The themes, the desperation of the heroes, Darkseid wins! (for a while, anyway), Superman Freaking Beyond...I love it.
    Final Crisis is a textbook example of a story that was bungled in its original release thanks to Didio's editorial mismanagement and Morrison's own hubris, but was redeemed by subsequent collected editions that revised and re-edited the story into what it was meant to be in the first place.

    Unlike big budget movies, the big comics events don't get any test screenings to help them fix any problems before it gets released to the general audience. I will give Didio credit for letting Morrison go back and tinker ever so slightly to make his story work better. It also helps immensely that the newest collected edition gets to stand on its own without the entirely unrelated and terrible Countdown to Final Crisis and Death of the New Gods confusing readers and distracting them from Morrison's story, which was very much a direct sequel to his Seven Soldiers event.

    What people like about Morrison is that he takes big swings. He's not interested in giving readers straight-forward easily-digestible comics that any big-creator is capable of delivering. He wants to push the mainstream of the comics medium into new and unfamiliar areas, because otherwise it will wither and die regurgitating the same stories and ideas in the same ways over and over again.

  7. #37
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Final Crisis is a textbook example of a story that was bungled in its original release thanks to Didio's editorial mismanagement and Morrison's own hubris, but was redeemed by subsequent collected editions that revised and re-edited the story into what it was meant to be in the first place.
    I know it's been collected in multiple formats at this point; any particular edition you'd recommend? Or are they all re-edited?

    I'd be willing to give it a second chance...
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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Stanlos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    52 is one of the best “events” ever. A dream writing team of Johns, Waid, Morrison, and Rucka focusing on the B and C-Listers telling the story of a year without the Trinity. I doubt we’ll ever see something that good again.
    I always wondered how it was that none of those guys, especially Waid, were tapped be CCO for DC. Waid ir Busiek seem the obvious choices to me still to this day.

  9. #39
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    While I wasn't as into it as most at the time, I remember it positively. It was well-written, for sure, and it brought back the multiverse for which I'll always approve. I just drifted in and out at times when it focused on characters I wasn't really into (fully understanding though that was the point, to focus on the lesser knowns).
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 08-28-2018 at 03:13 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

  10. #40
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJNeal View Post
    I know it's been collected in multiple formats at this point; any particular edition you'd recommend? Or are they all re-edited?

    I'd be willing to give it a second chance...
    The collection that Morrison re-edited is called Final Crisis (New Edition). https://www.amazon.com/Final-Crisis-.../dp/140124517X

    It eliminates all the extraneous nonsense that Didio tried to throw into the event that had little, if anything, to do with the main story, while adding in essential material from the tie-ins that Morrison did that got lost in the shuffle thanks to the confusion of all those unnecessary comics. While DC Editorial is certainly to blame for a lot of this, Morrison also should have been more clear with them about how the story should have presented. Thankfully, it's all been sorted out in the end and the story, as it is presented now, is much easier to follow and understand.

    That said, Final Crisis is still incredibly dense and ambitious. It is a challenging story that challenges its audience by throwing a lot of information and ideas at the reader and not wasting any time letting you absorb it all before leaping into the next crazy notion. Another thing you should know going in is that a lot of the groundwork for Final Crisis was laid by Morrison's similarly dense and complex Seven Soldiers event, which is now rightfully marketed in many cases as part of Final Crisis itself.

    https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Soldier...grant+morrison

    https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Soldier...rrison+omnibus

    https://www.amazon.com/Final-Crisis-.../dp/140124517X

  11. #41
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I always wondered how it was that none of those guys, especially Waid, were tapped be CCO for DC. Waid ir Busiek seem the obvious choices to me still to this day.
    According to an interview from a few years back, there was a time when Dan Didio was considering moving on to a different position and Mark Waid was considered for the job of DC's Editor in Chief.

  12. #42
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    According to an interview from a few years back, there was a time when Dan Didio was considering moving on to a different position and Mark Waid was considered for the job of DC's Editor in Chief.
    Isn’t Harras the editor-in-chief? How the hell did he get the position? What does he even do, I never hear about him.

  13. #43
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Isn’t Harras the editor-in-chief? How the hell did he get the position? What does he even do, I never hear about him.
    He tends to keep a low profile and is one of the many reasons Mark Waid won't work for DC for the foreseeable future

  14. #44
    Uncanny Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stanlos View Post
    I always wondered how it was that none of those guys, especially Waid, were tapped be CCO for DC. Waid or Busiek seem the obvious choices to me still to this day.
    But would they have wanted the job?

    Sometimes, writers prefer to . . . you know . . . write and avoid the headaches of the management-side of things.

  15. #45
    Titans Together!! byrd156's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    But would they have wanted the job?

    Sometimes, writers prefer to . . . you know . . . write and avoid the headaches of the management-side of things.
    I wish the editors would rather edit and manage rather than set editorial mandates and try to turn other stories into their own.
    "It's too bad she won't live! But then again, who does? - Gaff Blade Runner

    "In a short time, this will be a long time ago." - Werner Slow West

    "One of the biggest problems in the industry is apathy right now." - Dan Didio Co-Publisher of I Wonder Why That Is Comics

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