In much more severe situation, and you are saying he's gonna fall for a much lower situation after years of training?
He did, he ignited his lightsaber, he did put it into action for a moment.That's the thing, he DIDN'T try to kill somebody that hadn't done anything bad. That was the real tragedy. He panic for a brief moment. That's all he did. And everything fell apart from there.
Character inconsistency, see?What more explanation do you need? After being built up to be the great Jedi hero and the savior of everybody, he messed up in the worst way and caused the son of his sister and best friend to embrace the darkside.
He didn't fail in OT, when he was a young boy and Vader was 99% rotten to the core, why would he fail here? In a situation that even the old Jedi Masters would not fail. Do you see Obi Wan or Yoda or Qui Gon or Windu try to murder Anakin simply because they sensed some darkness?In that one moment, he failed everything he was working for and let down the people he cared about the most. If that's not a good reason to stick your head in the dirt and hide on the far side of the galaxy, what would be?
Luke still gave in to his dark side for a while there. He fought Vader with a brutality rarely seen at all in Star Wars, a man who Luke believed could be saved despite his crimes. Sure he stopped himself in the end, just like he stopped himself from going through with his knee jerk reaction to seeing the darkness within Ben, but for a moment there he could've just as easily gone through with beating Vader into a bloody pulp.
My point is that in both scenes Luke temporarily gave in to darker aspects of himself.
In ROTJ he was goaded and eventually gave into the fury within himself, beating Vader so badly that he died from the wounds. In TLJ Luke had a kneejerk reaction when he realised how much darkness there was within Ben and that Ben had already made contact with Snoke, aiming to eliminate the potential threat.
In both instances Luke overcame the darkness within himself before going through with the killing blow. With Vader it was just in time and with Ben it was unfortunately at exactly the wrong time.
Dressing it down I'm saying that regardless of Luke's motives, Vader and Ben's respective actions at that point and how long the two insidences are, in both scenes Luke temporarily gives in to the dark side and stops himself before killing the opponent.
There's a big difference between Anakin who's not even a teenager, has no training whatsoever or made contact with any evil mastermind and Ben who's possibly a young adult at that time (I'm not quite sure), has been trained by Luke himself and is already teaming up with a big bad force user.
Also, you make it sound like Luke was plotting out Ben's death for a long time. He had a brief reaction to seeing a future where Ben destroyed everything Luke had worked for. That's it.
Yeah in a much more severe situation.
Vader is 99% evil, had done terrible crimes.
His friends are in danger.
The empire is a big evil threat
And in such condition, he still tried to reason with Vader and wish to bring him back, even when Obi Wan had suggested him to take Vader down.
He didn't lose himself until Vader mentioned Leia, and after that moment he was able to get back, he also saw that his action DID bring Vader back, which proved himself to be right.
What was the situation in TLJ?
Ren was sleeping.
He wasn't evil, not yet, hasn't done terrible crimes.
All the bad things are just "possible futures"
And you are saying Luke, someone who had resisted the Dark Side in much more severe condition, would fall for THAT?
You need real build up and explanation, or it's very inconsistent with him. BAD IDEA here.
Anakin was a teenager in EP II, trained by the Jedi Order for 10 years, he already showed darkness, killing those sand people in his rage. Ren hasn't done anything like that.
Do you see any of the Jedi Master want to kill him? Even if they know it, would they kill him for it?
WHY would Luke fall for it, where even the stubborn old Jedi Master would not fall?
Not. Relevant.
It doesn't matter how long he resisted or what pushed him over the edge, in the end he gave in.
Welp, as you have been told repeatedly: HE DID NOT.Now WHY did he fall for the TLJ situation?
But the situation probably is not him just having an impulse one night, but something that had been gnawing at him for weeks or months. He held out for ages. Oh, and unlike with Vader, he didn't give in.
Luke was essentially dealing with a young Hitler who was already well over 50% rotten. Plus he can see the future.Ren was a super evil cyborg that had committed countless crimes by that time right?
And Luke doesn't learn from his mistake right?
Last edited by Carabas; 08-19-2018 at 01:13 PM.
Relevant.
It showed how STRONG he was against the Dark Side. Any less severe situation doesn't bother him.
Everyone would lose temper in extreme situation, so it's not out of character if a gentleman went mad for little things without explanation?
He did, he ignited his lightsaber against a sleeping innocent young man. That's something way below his character.Welp, as you have been told repeatedly: HE DID NOT.
But the situation probably is not him just having an impulse one night, but something that had been gnawing at him for weeks or months. He held out for ages. Oh, and unlike with Vader, he didn't give in.