Rian Johnson's main problem

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Excellent video indeed.

It highlights perfectly why the last jedi is a failure as a movie.

that's too hyperbolic. I'd say it's a good movie that doesn't always live up to it's expectations.

[Slowpokeking]

He got over it THAT TIME. The dark side doesn't go away. You can't just beat it once and it never bothers you again.

In much more severe situation, and you are saying he's gonna fall for a much lower situation after years of training?

That's the thing, he DIDN'T try to kill somebody that hadn't done anything bad. That was the real tragedy. He panic for a brief moment. That's all he did. And everything fell apart from there.

He did, he ignited his lightsaber, he did put it into action for a moment.

What more explanation do you need? After being built up to be the great Jedi hero and the savior of everybody, he messed up in the worst way and caused the son of his sister and best friend to embrace the darkside.

Character inconsistency, see?

In that one moment, he failed everything he was working for and let down the people he cared about the most. If that's not a good reason to stick your head in the dirt and hide on the far side of the galaxy, what would be?

He didn't fail in OT, when he was a young boy and Vader was 99% rotten to the core, why would he fail here? In a situation that even the old Jedi Masters would not fail. Do you see Obi Wan or Yoda or Qui Gon or Windu try to murder Anakin simply because they sensed some darkness?

[Dark Soul # 7]

No, Luke refused to fight Vader, keep believing there is good in him.

He only went mad for a moment when Vader said about corrupt Leia, and he got over with it.

You also need to remember that Vader was 99% rotten to the core, different situation.

Luke still gave in to his dark side for a while there. He fought Vader with a brutality rarely seen at all in Star Wars, a man who Luke believed could be saved despite his crimes. Sure he stopped himself in the end, just like he stopped himself from going through with his knee jerk reaction to seeing the darkness within Ben, but for a moment there he could've just as easily gone through with beating Vader into a bloody pulp.

I really think we must have seen or read the scenes differently. Luke had to be goaded several times throughout return to raise his lightsaber. It was only after they threaten Leia that he lost it. Where as the tent scene his first instinct was to ignite his lightsaber.

My point is that in both scenes Luke temporarily gave in to darker aspects of himself.

In ROTJ he was goaded and eventually gave into the fury within himself, beating Vader so badly that he died from the wounds. In TLJ Luke had a kneejerk reaction when he realised how much darkness there was within Ben and that Ben had already made contact with Snoke, aiming to eliminate the potential threat.

In both instances Luke overcame the darkness within himself before going through with the killing blow. With Vader it was just in time and with Ben it was unfortunately at exactly the wrong time.

Dressing it down I'm saying that regardless of Luke's motives, Vader and Ben's respective actions at that point and how long the two insidences are, in both scenes Luke temporarily gives in to the dark side and stops himself before killing the opponent.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Even a typical old Jedi Master doesn't consider to kill someone BEFORE they went evil, we don't see Obi Wan, Mace Windu or Yoda thinking about killing Anakin when there are obvious darkness rising in him.

There's a big difference between Anakin who's not even a teenager, has no training whatsoever or made contact with any evil mastermind and Ben who's possibly a young adult at that time (I'm not quite sure), has been trained by Luke himself and is already teaming up with a big bad force user.

Also, you make it sound like Luke was plotting out Ben's death for a long time. He had a brief reaction to seeing a future where Ben destroyed everything Luke had worked for. That's it.

[Slowpokeking]

Luke still gave in to his dark side for a while there. He fought Vader with a brutality rarely seen at all in Star Wars, a man who Luke believed could be saved despite his crimes. Sure he stopped himself in the end, just like he stopped himself from going through with his knee jerk reaction to seeing the darkness within Ben, but for a moment there he could've just as easily gone through with beating Vader into a bloody pulp.

Yeah in a much more severe situation.

Vader is 99% evil, had done terrible crimes.
His friends are in danger.
The empire is a big evil threat

And in such condition, he still tried to reason with Vader and wish to bring him back, even when Obi Wan had suggested him to take Vader down.

He didn't lose himself until Vader mentioned Leia, and after that moment he was able to get back, he also saw that his action DID bring Vader back, which proved himself to be right.

What was the situation in TLJ?

Ren was sleeping.

He wasn't evil, not yet, hasn't done terrible crimes.

All the bad things are just "possible futures"

And you are saying Luke, someone who had resisted the Dark Side in much more severe condition, would fall for THAT?

You need real build up and explanation, or it's very inconsistent with him. BAD IDEA here.

[Slowpokeking]

There's a big difference between Anakin who's not even a teenager, has no training whatsoever or made contact with any evil mastermind and Ben who's possibly a young adult at that time (I'm not quite sure), has been trained by Luke himself and is already teaming up with a big bad force user.

Also, you make it sound like Luke was plotting out Ben's death for a long time. He had a brief reaction to seeing a future where Ben destroyed everything Luke had worked for. That's it.

Anakin was a teenager in EP II, trained by the Jedi Order for 10 years, he already showed darkness, killing those sand people in his rage. Ren hasn't done anything like that.

Do you see any of the Jedi Master want to kill him? Even if they know it, would they kill him for it?

WHY would Luke fall for it, where even the stubborn old Jedi Master would not fall?

[Carabas]

I really think we must have seen or read the scenes differently. Luke had to be goaded several times throughout return to raise his lightsaber. It was only after they threaten Leia that he lost it. Where as the tent scene his first instinct was to ignite his lightsaber.

The point is that he did lose it quite badly. It doesn't matter that he kept his cool initially. He still lost it.

I mean, of course he had to be goaded severely. He's not Wolverine.

[Slowpokeking]

The point is that he did lose it quite badly. It doesn't matter that he kept his cool initially. He still lost it.

I mean, of course he had to be goaded severely. He's not Wolverine.

In a MUCH MORE severe situation, against a REAL villain, yes. And before the mentioning of Leia, he was strong enough to resist it.

Now WHY did he fall for the TLJ situation?

[Carabas]

He did, he ignited his lightsaber, he did put it into action for a moment.

Well, if those are the rules by which actions count as real then Luke killed Vader dead as a dodo instead of just un-handing him.

[Dark Soul # 7]

In a MUCH MORE severe situation, against a REAL villain, yes. And before the mentioning of Leia, he was strong enough to resist it.

Now WHY did he fall for the TLJ situation?

Because the struggle against the dark side is everlasting and sometimes even heroes makes missteps.

[Slowpokeking]

Well, if those are the rules by which actions count as real then Luke killed Vader dead as a dodo instead of just un-handing him.

Yes, Luke did put it into action in EP6, in a completely different situation.

Ren was a super evil cyborg that had committed countless crimes by that time right?
And Luke doesn't learn from his mistake right?

[Carabas]

In a MUCH MORE severe situation, against a REAL villain, yes. And before the mentioning of Leia, he was strong enough to resist it.

Not. Relevant.
It doesn't matter how long he resisted or what pushed him over the edge, in the end he gave in.

Now WHY did he fall for the TLJ situation?

Welp, as you have been told repeatedly: HE DID NOT.

But the situation probably is not him just having an impulse one night, but something that had been gnawing at him for weeks or months. He held out for ages. Oh, and unlike with Vader, he didn't give in.

Ren was a super evil cyborg that had committed countless crimes by that time right?
And Luke doesn't learn from his mistake right?

Luke was essentially dealing with a young Hitler who was already well over 50% rotten. Plus he can see the future.

[Slowpokeking]

Because the struggle against the dark side is everlasting and sometimes even heroes makes missteps.

Luke didn't struggle in a much more severe situation, even with Obi Wan's push he refused to kill his father. Such level doesn't trouble the young Luke.

Killing a evil cyborg with 1% light side, is totally different than killing a young man who hasn't done crimes.

[Slowpokeking]

Not. Relevant.
It doesn't matter how long he resisted or what pushed him over the edge, in the end he gave in.

Relevant.

It showed how STRONG he was against the Dark Side. Any less severe situation doesn't bother him.

Everyone would lose temper in extreme situation, so it's not out of character if a gentleman went mad for little things without explanation?

Welp, as you have been told repeatedly: HE DID NOT.

But the situation probably is not him just having an impulse one night, but something that had been gnawing at him for weeks or months. He held out for ages. Oh, and unlike with Vader, he didn't give in.

He did, he ignited his lightsaber against a sleeping innocent young man. That's something way below his character.

[Slowpokeking]

Luke was essentially dealing with a young Hitler who was already well over 50% rotten. Plus he can see the future.

What Hitler? What did Ren do at that time? Anakin did kill sand people in his rage in EP II, do you see the old jedi try to kill him?