Rian Johnson's main problem

[Dark Soul # 7]

Anakin was a teenager in EP II, trained by the Jedi Order for 10 years, he already showed darkness, killing those sand people in his rage. Ren hasn't done anything like that.

Do you see any of the Jedi Master want to kill him? Even if they know it, would they kill him for it?

WHY would Luke fall for it, where even the stubborn old Jedi Master would not fall?

Because they're part of a much more established organization than what Luke was trying to build, and they're arrogant as ****, so they didn't fear a potentially dark side without any resources (as far as they knew) while Ben had contact with Snoke.

And these are the same Jedi masters that couldn't tell that obviously evil Palpatine was a super powerful sith lord or that Anakin married Padme. They were pretty damn blind to things and I don't think they ever knew about Anakin slaughtering the sand people or any of the other bad stuff going on within him.

And again, it was a moment of weakness that Luke immediately regretted, even before **** went to hell. I mean, if you prefer Luke to be a flawless and incorruptible paragon of good then that's fine. I just think it's more interesting, and perfectly in character, for him to be shown struggling with the dark side every now and again since that's a big part of his family.

[Carabas]

Let me get this straight...

In Return Of The Jedi Luke totally resisted the dark side even though he went completely berserk and almost killed Vader.
In The Last Jedi Luke totally gave in to the dark side even though he didn't hurt anyone.

That about the gist of it?

[Slowpokeking]

Because they're part of a much more established organization than what Luke was trying to build, and they're arrogant as ****, so they didn't fear a potentially dark side without any resources (as far as they knew) while Ben had contact with Snoke.

And these are the same Jedi masters that couldn't tell that obviously evil Palpatine was a super powerful sith lord or that Anakin married Padme. They were pretty damn blind to things and I don't think they ever knew about Anakin slaughtering the sand people or any of the other bad stuff going on within him.

And again, it was a moment of weakness that Luke immediately regretted, even before **** went to hell. I mean, if you prefer Luke to be a flawless and incorruptible paragon of good then that's fine. I just think it's more interesting, and perfectly in character, for him to be shown struggling with the dark side every now and again since that's a big part of his family.

They do, especially Anakin being the chosen one did trouble them a lot. They had fear in this boy from the beginning and didn't want to accept him until Qui Gon's death.

So if they know, they are going to kill Anakin instead of trying to grab him back from the wrong track? Obi Wan obviously sensed it, Qui Gon also saw in in the Force and he didn't ask the Jedi to kill him.

There should be no such weak moment for Luke, he was strong enough to resist in a much more severe situation, fall for that was way out of his character. Trying to kill some innocent young guy in his sleep is way below "flawless and incorruptible paragon".

[Slowpokeking]

Let me get this straight...

In Return Of The Jedi Luke totally resisted the dark side even though he went completely berserk and almost killed Vader.
In The Last Jedi Luke totally gave in to the dark side even though he didn't hurt anyone.

That about the gist of it?

You don't get it right?

In RotJ Luke did give up to the dark side in very extreme situation, but we also saw he was able to hold his own in very serious situation.
Also he DID realize his mistake, and his change did pay off, it's not like he's stupid and doesn't learn from his mistake.

And in TLJ he falll for something like that, is out of his character.

[Carabas]

Most of them were not jedi. Either Sith or trained Dark Side users.

50% of the movie Sith used to be Jedi.
Palps turned a Jedi Master into his apprentice....

[Slowpokeking]

50% of the movie Sith used to be Jedi.
Palps turned a Jedi Master into his apprentice....

Yeah, two of them, that's nice.

If Paplatine could sway half of the Jedi to his side he wouldn't need to wait for so long to execute his plan.

[Dark Soul # 7]

There should be no such weak moment for Luke, he was strong enough to resist in a much more severe situation, fall for that was way out of his character. Trying to kill some innocent young guy in his sleep is way below "flawless and incorruptible paragon".

He doesn't try to kill Ben in his sleep.

He goes to Ben's bed to use his fancy force reading powers to see how bad the sitution he's been mulling over for a while is. In doing so he is immediately struck with visions of Ben destroying everything he's worked for and how Ben is already working with Snoke and everything is just much worse than he dreaded.

In a brief instant of weakness he activates his light saber to defend everything from a potential threat and in the very next instant he regrets doing that and feels ashamed of himself, and if Ben hadn't woken up at that moment Luke would've just turned off the light saber and walked away to ponder his next action.

But sure, this way worse than flying into a fit of fury and almost brutally murdering Darth Vader.

[Slowpokeking]

He doesn't try to kill Ben in his sleep.

He goes to Ben's bed to use his fancy force reading powers to see how bad the sitution he's been mulling over for a while is. In doing so he is immediately struck with visions of Ben destroying everything he's worked for and how Ben is already working with Snoke and everything is just much worse than he dreaded.

In a brief instant of weakness he activates his light saber to defend everything from a potential threat and in the very next instant he regrets doing that and feels ashamed of himself, and if Ben hadn't woken up at that moment Luke would've just turned off the light saber and walked away to ponder his next action.

But sure, this way worse than flying into a fit of fury and almost brutally murdering Darth Vader.

He did try to kill Ren, he ignited his lightsaber to kill him, just realized his mistake.

Again totally different situation, you don't see the difference between Ren and Darth Vader right? Ren is a young man who is innocent. Darth Vader is 99% evil and had done countless terrible crimes. He wasn't sleeping as well, but trying to strike Luke and lure him to the Dark Side. And Luke was still able resist it before he had mentioned Leia.

[Alan2099]

You don't get it right?

In RotJ Luke did give up to the dark side in very extreme situation, but we also saw he was able to hold his own in very serious situation.
Also he DID realize his mistake, and his change did pay off, it's not like he's stupid and doesn't learn from his mistake.

And in TLJ he falll for something like that, is out of his character.

In an extreme situation he acts in an extreme manner and almost kills the person he wants to save, and that's okay.

In a less extreme situation he acts in a far less extreme manner and doesn't hurt anybody and somehow that unforgivable?

[Slowpokeking]

In an extreme situation he acts in an extreme manner and almost kills the person he wants to save, and that's okay.

In a less extreme situation he acts in a far less extreme manner and doesn't hurt anybody and somehow that unforgivable?

How is it extreme? Darth Vader is the enemy and was keep taunting and threatening Luke, fighting him is not something extreme. And before he had mentioning Leia Luke was able to hold all of it off.

Ren is nowhere close to it, trying to kill him in his sleep is very very low.

[Alan2099]

How is it extreme? Darth Vader is the enemy and was keep taunting and threatening Luke, fighting him is not something extreme. And before he had mentioning Leia Luke was able to hold all of it off.

Ren is nowhere close to it, trying to kill him in his sleep is very very low.

And Luke's reaction is nowhere close to what you imply it is. Holding a weapon is not the same thing as trying to kill a person. Point a weapon at a person isn't even the same thing.

[Carabas]

He did try to kill Ren, he ignited his lightsaber to kill him, just realized his mistake.

Drawing a weapon is not attempted murder.

[Slowpokeking]

And Luke's reaction is nowhere close to what you imply it is. Holding a weapon is not the same thing as trying to kill a person. Point a weapon at a person isn't even the same thing.

Luke did hold for so long, which means he could resist the Dark Side in such serious situation, why did he fall for Ren's condition? Even after he went enraged, his action wasn't too bizarre based on what Vader was doing. Again you are keep failing to see the difference between Vader and Ren plus different situation.

He ignited his weapon when Ren was sleeping, he was obviously trying to kill Ren in that moment.

[Slowpokeking]

Drawing a weapon is not attempted murder.

Drawing weapon towards someone so closely in his sleep, is trying to murder, just he stopped quick enough.

Do you see Mace Windu or Obi Wan Or Qui Gon do such thing against Anakin in his sleep?

[Dark Soul # 7]

He ignited his weapon when Ren was sleeping, he was obviously trying to kill Ren in that moment.

He ignited the light saber to kill Ben as a reaction to his sudden realization of how bad the situation was and the premonition of everything going to hell.

But he never actually tried to kill Ben. He regretted reacting the way he did almost instantly.