Apocalypse vs Juggernaut

**Cthulhu_of_R'lyeh** · 08-19-2018, 04:06 AM

I look away and this thread gets seventy-billion responses.

I'm claiming that as a win for Poccy.

**moonknight11** · 08-19-2018, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Pendaran

He's.. eh. I wouldn't call him a peer of Thor.

Some of that is my hate of the last Eternals series talking I give you.

He's.. Wonder man.. ish? Traditional Wonder Man. In terms of overall effectiveness. Which doesn't suck mind you.

I've seen people argue he's more powerful than that. I just... ehhhh...

edit: like there are bits where if you take them seriously he's managed to at least get a reaction from the Surfer with his eyebeams, that kind of thing.

So basically he's the diet class 100 just like Wonder Man?

Eh that's not a bad feat I guess. For supporting the Young Thor, Hulk showings. I want to see more though. However if he frequently appears as a power drainer then idk we have to take that into account. He may not have many feats without that power draining thing to make a good assessment.

**Pendaran** · 08-19-2018, 04:20 AM

So basically he's the diet class 100 just like Wonder Man?

There's a school of thought I don't agree with that argues otherwise, as far as it goes.

edit: there's also a notion that he's not really more powerful than the Thing overall, which I'll grant is going too far in the other direction. Wonder Man seems a solid middle ground of that.

**Pendaran** · 08-19-2018, 04:22 AM

However if he frequently appears as a power drainer then idk we have to take that into account. He may not have many feats without that power draining thing to make a good assessment.

There are certainly showings that are straight up him, but there are otherwise a variety of points where he's either empowered himself, or been forcibly depowered by something or other, or where he gets taken out because there's a dude with the power to negate superpowers, or etc.

edit: I would though say that things like the Loki escape and that Ikaris hung in there at least a little bit are knocks against the Hulk and Young Thor showings as defining though. Also I would say that at this point they're the only viable way to knock those showings given almost every other rationale that attempted to do so in this thread to this point.

I mean, there's also the High Evolutionary fight, but if you ponder how powerful the High Evolutionary is supposed to be overall, that would basically make every other showing Apocalypse has had into nonsense.

**The Arbiter** · 08-19-2018, 09:16 AM

Originally Posted by Pendaran

edit: I would though say that things like the Loki escape and that Ikaris hung in there at least a little bit are knocks against the Hulk and Young Thor showings as defining though. Also I would say that at this point they're the only viable way to knock those showings given almost every other rationale that attempted to do so in this thread to this point.

The "almost" comment allowing of course for the fact that all my stuff is correct, true and honest and anyone who says otherwise is just a big meanie? Right? :P

....seriously I am so sleep deprived right now. I hate myself.

**Pendaran** · 08-19-2018, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by The Arbiter

The "almost" comment allowing of course for the fact that all my stuff is correct, true and honest and anyone who says otherwise is just a big meanie? Right? :P

....seriously I am so sleep deprived right now. I hate myself.

That's totally what I meant, sure ;p

**The Arbiter** · 08-19-2018, 10:01 AM

Huh. There is in fact another example of Young Thor fighting Apoc with his axe. He actually has Jane Thor at his side during the fight.

Before I can make any statements on it, I need to know what sort of boost Apoc has while super sized. Does being big mean anything? It's in Egypt. Dude is nearly 100 feet tall.

**Pendaran** · 08-19-2018, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by The Arbiter

Huh. There is in fact another example of Young Thor fighting Apoc with his axe. He actually has Jane Thor at his side during the fight.

Before I can make any statements on it, I need to know what sort of boost Apoc has while super sized. Does being big mean anything? It's in Egypt. Dude is nearly 100 feet tall.

Was he being boosted by machinery, his base, or the like?

Also, issue number?

**The Arbiter** · 08-19-2018, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Pendaran

Was he being boosted by machinery, his base, or the like?

That's what I need wiser minds for. It doesn't seem so. It's just him in some basic armor but huge.

Can he become huge without external energy?

**Pendaran** · 08-19-2018, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by The Arbiter

That's what I need wiser minds for. It doesn't seem so. It's just him in some basic armor but huge.

Can he become huge without external energy?

Yeah, he can shapeshift and crap. He's made parts of himself gigantic in fights like his fists and etc.

Issue number?

**The Arbiter** · 08-19-2018, 10:25 AM

Hopefully this helps:
https://mobilestore.marvel.com/Gener...al-comic/45428

**The Arbiter** · 08-19-2018, 10:27 AM

He physically restrains Jane with a tendril arm at one point and back hands Thor at another.

Edit: I mean, if the full context shows us that this is baseline Apoc, than I'm comfortable saying it totally legitimizes the Hulk thing and cements him as a pretty serious class 100 threat.

**Pendaran** · 08-19-2018, 10:39 AM

Oh.. you mean Marvel Generations.

That kinda sorta didn't 100% happen exactly. Kobik was screwing around to give people confidence boosting history experiences.

Also Apocalypse completely ignoring post Celestial Killing Enchantment Jarnborn hitting him full on while being capable of fighting two Thors at once, while straight up physically overpowering Jane Thor via turning his arm into a tendril such that she's only able to get free when Apocalypse throws her away, while a full on Mjolnir zap to the chest from Jane looks like it barely does anything and the only thing that really registered on him was a Mjolnir smash to the face, while also only losing off panel in a way we never see akin to Cyborg Superman's "I am on panel kicking everyone's ass, but for some reason I will now forget to actually win" during Sinestro Corps War is um...

Perhaps too good for Apocalypse.

edit: I suppose it stands fine with the Young Thor thing, and the Hulk thing as far as demonstrated power, yes, it's just.. eesh. The full on axe hit doing nothing whatsoever, not even scratching the paint job, while Apocalypse physically manhandles them both, suggests being it out of place with them in its own way all the same.

**Pendaran** · 08-19-2018, 10:43 AM

There's nothing to suggest it wasn't baseline Apoc (by which I mean, nothing in comic suggests he's being externally boosted by something), but Marvel Generations is hazy for what really happened.

Then again the Thor issue actually referenced ongoing events and depicted things that were happening during that time period despite Jane not being there to know of/experience/interact with them and the stuff Odin mentioned actually played out. And events continued to unfold even after Jane left.

So I suppose that one happened.

Marvel Generations was still a thing that involved Kobik messing around though.

**Alan2099** · 08-19-2018, 10:54 AM

Apocalypse headbuts Thor and sends him flying
https://imgur.com/S0AjKdp

Apocalypse backhands Thor and sends him flying
https://imgur.com/WW1iMhm

https://imgur.com/5hs9d2f
https://imgur.com/b3LwkNE
https://imgur.com/2F5CLVa
Apocalypse takes multiple hits from Thor without any real damage.

I will admit, I don't know the exact context of these, they're just things I found doing a quick search for Apocalypse vs Thor.

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