Apocalypse vs Juggernaut

[The Arbiter]

The Thor stuff is that you're putting qualifiers on it to discount the showing that don't make sense or bear out with regards how much his being drunk weighed on it.

And no, Hulk could still get madder and stronger.

Why don't they bear out? You keep mentioning durability. When did I say he was less durable because of booze? Just that booze and other stuff affected the nature of that fight.

[The Arbiter]

Post the snake choke-out next Arby.

I was really hoping someone else would :P

[moonknight11]

Snake vs Apoc who wins ��. But really has Juggernaut ever overpowered hulk like Apoc did?

It seems to me that Juggys strength is far outstripped by his durability and Apoc may well be stronger.

[Pendaran]

After an extended struggle where he was gasping and only overcame it because of a rage boost.

And yet, interestingly, as if bearing out my point, and when the Hulk wasn't wanting to fight no less, and as the follow up to an out of context scan, the Hulk did this to Hammer and Anvil:

https://imgur.com/a/KqExxww

https://imgur.com/a/DmGOA79

Despite having been drugged, sitting down, and not wanting to fight no less. As though "people less powerful than the Hulk trying that crap are going to get flung by the Hulk."

[The Dork Knight]

The narration of that comic was so strange though. You think limber neck is really the difference between hurt lip and "skull separated from spine"? Later on the narrator claims shockwaves traveled for miles despite no crater, visible shockwave or nearby raindrops, mud etc being affected by said shockwaves.

While there was possibly hyperbole, it seems at the very least that Thor being drunk wasn't particularly hindering him.

Later in the same issue, a completely prepped young Thor threw his axe at Apocalypse and he caught it one handed and almost one shotted him (he turned his back on Thor believing the fight to be over)

Remender seemed to be pushing the idea that Young Thor was no match for Apocalypse without his magic axe. Whether its the same for current Thor is debatable but the inebriation of Thor doesn't seem to be a factor going by how the two fights were written

[Pendaran]

Why don't they bear out? You keep mentioning durability. When did I say he was less durable because of booze? Just that booze and other stuff affected the nature of that fight.

If he wasn't less durable, how physically powerful would Apocalypse need to be for single hits to have that kind of described impact on Thor as they did?

[The Arbiter]

Snake vs Apoc who wins ��. But really has Juggernaut ever overpowered hulk like Apoc did?

It seems to me that Juggys strength is far outstripped by his durability and Apoc may well be stronger.

Cain sorta pounded out or beat on Prof Hulk once, but I think Prof is a touch weaker than normal.

[theoneandonly]

As pendaran said that wasn't a hulk who was bereft of his strength increasing with his rage and yet he was fighting for his life twice in those circumstances. the only hulk so affected irrc was "professor" hulk.

[theoneandonly]

And yet, interestingly, as if bearing out my point, and when the Hulk wasn't wanting to fight no less, and as the follow up to an out of context scan, the Hulk did this to Hammer and Anvil:

https://imgur.com/a/KqExxww

https://imgur.com/a/DmGOA79

Despite having been drugged, sitting down, and not wanting to fight no less. As though "people less powerful than the Hulk trying that crap are going to get flung by the Hulk."

yet they are now where in the 100 class club and the first instance he wasn't drugged and yet the blackness of death was claiming him according to the panel. maybe he is just vulnerable to alien tech chokehold.

[The Arbiter]

If he wasn't less durable, how physically powerful would Apocalypse need to be for single hits to have that kind of described impact on Thor as they did?

A solid class 100 himself?

[Pendaran]

As pendaran said that wasn't a hulk who was bereft of his strength increasing with his rage and yet he was fighting for his life twice in those circumstances. the only hulk so affected irrc was "professor" hulk.

See above scans for how that second thing went, real fast after they tried it. They tried it on a Hulk that actually was impaired, at that.

More to the point, as far as a showing of people who showed up.... twice, basically (maybe four times?), there's essentially zero argument to make for that "these super weak people did it!" These are characters who existed like.. 2-4 times. Their main ability is a super charged up cord and some lame stat buffs. The only thing the performance speaks to is their super charged up cord's effectiveness or lack thereof.

[Pendaran]

yet they are now where in the 100 class club and the first instance he wasn't drugged and yet the blackness of death was claiming him according to the panel. maybe he is just vulnerable to alien tech chokehold.

And yet he still broke it. And considering your argument is "that was because the character was in his heyday", that was the first appearance of some dudes they were trying to give heat to. You feel the first thing should take away from the Apoc showing, but not impact their own? That's.. inconsistent stuff.

[Pendaran]

A solid class 100 himself?

Dude, that's really disingenuous. Those hits messed Thor up.

Let me try that more directly. If Apoc did not have parity there, could he have still done that?

[The Arbiter]

While there was possibly hyperbole, it seems at the very least that Thor being drunk wasn't particularly hindering him.

Later in the same issue, a completely prepped young Thor threw his axe at Apocalypse and he caught it one handed and almost one shotted him (he turned his back on Thor believing the fight to be over)

Remender seemed to be pushing the idea that Young Thor was no match for Apocalypse without his magic axe. Whether its the same for current Thor is debatable but the inebriation of Thor doesn't seem to be a factor going by how the two fights were written

He didn't turn his back. He in fact marched up with a transformed fist looking to finish the job when Thor sprung up from apparently playing possum.

[The Arbiter]

Dude, that's really disingenuous. Those hits messed Thor up.

Let me try that more directly. If Apoc did not have parity there, could he have still done that?

No, I don't believe he could have damaged Thor so heavily unless there was strength/power parity there. Unless age has anything to do with Asgardian physicality, I have no problem saying that.