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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    He didn't turn his back. He in fact marched up with a transformed fist looking to finish the job when Thor sprung up from apparently playing possum.
    His arms were shaking as he grabbed his axe. That's less playing possum and more desperate last minute rally.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    He didn't turn his back. He in fact marched up with a transformed fist looking to finish the job when Thor sprung up from apparently playing possum.
    Ahh you're right. Its still the same thing though in that Apocalypse believed the fight was over and was starting to monologue when Thor pulled one out of the bag

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Dork Knight View Post
    Ahh you're right. Its still the same thing though in that Apocalypse believed the fight was over and was starting to monologue when Thor pulled one out of the bag
    That's still not some effort of trickery of Thor when we see Thor is shaking, that's "last minute rally not to die"

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    And yet he still broke it. And considering your argument is "that was because the character was in his heyday", that was the first appearance of some dudes they were trying to give heat to. You feel the first thing should take away from the Apoc showing, but not impact their own? That's.. inconsistent stuff.
    yea now that you bring it up they don't have much appearances to gauge their strength but then do you feel they only have the strength without the invulnerability that usually accompanies it cuz the scourge killed them in one shot in the story which either implies they were not all that hot or only had the strength without the invulnerability or the gun was specifically designed to kill them.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    No, I don't believe he could have damaged Thor so heavily unless there was strength/power parity there. Unless age has anything to do with Asgardian physicality, I have no problem saying that.
    Then I guess we do have another showing demonstrating that sort of thing for Apocalypse unless your argument is that Thor is 70 to 80% of the Hulk's strength.

  6. #81
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    I hate to bring it up but this kind of exemplifies the problem with old Poccy lips. I think arby's mentioned this already but the same writer later wrote a fight between him and Unworthy Thor that ended with Thor positively wrecking his ****.

    Now admittedly Thor had his Celestial Kryptonite axe for that one buut Apocalypse claimed he was more than just his armour and then got his butt whupped anyway. It seems writers can't help but treat old Poccy as some sort of inconsistent joke

    This doesn't really take away from the Hulk thing but the Hulk was also in all sorts of pain in that time period, passing out from said pain and stuff in fact. Further, there's stuff like that Gorr fight that shows current Thor is more powerful than young Thor (or indeed the second Apocalypse fight)

    All in all, the Hulk thing is at best an aberration, if even that considering what Hulk was going through at the time. Apocalypse in general doesn't appear to be as strong as Thor /Hulk

  7. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    That's still not some effort of trickery of Thor when we see Thor is shaking, that's "last minute rally not to die"
    Mileage may vary on this one. There were some movement lines near his arms as he readies his axe sure. But his voice is strong and unwavering unlike Apoc who's voice is shaking and much more near death. I mean Thor gets up and runs out of there confidently saying one liners, as to how significant that one panel of motion lines was for his health.

    It reads to me more like playing possum, but I'll admit this is one of those "ehhh" moments that's hard to argue in any direction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    Then I guess we do have another showing demonstrating that sort of thing for Apocalypse unless your argument is that Thor is 70 to 80% of the Hulk's strength.
    Fair enough. So do you feel Young Thor could have similarly restrained the Hulk had he been in that position with those cables?
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by theoneandonly View Post
    yea now that you bring it up they don't have much appearances to gauge their strength but then do you feel they only have the strength without the invulnerability that usually accompanies it cuz the scourge killed them in one shot in the story which either implies they were not all that hot or only had the strength without the invulnerability or the gun was specifically designed to kill them.
    Either way, my note is that it doesn't mean much when the Hulk, calmed down into a drugged out stupor no less from even his mindless state such that he's all drugged up and not wanting to fight, and immediately afterwards straight up makes a pouty face and whines about his friend being gone, does the thing I'm saying the Hulk would do if people not up to snuff tried that crap.

    They had a super charged up glowing cord and some related stat nonsense that wasn't all that grand.

    If the only other showing to argue otherwise involves the Hulk being jobbed out by a snake, that kinda otherwise makes my argument there ;p

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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Mileage may vary on this one. There were some movement lines near his arms as he readies his axe sure. But his voice is strong and unwavering unlike Apoc who's voice is shaking and much more near death. I mean Thor gets up and runs out of there confidently saying one liners, as to how significant that one panel of motion lines was for his health.

    It reads to me more like playing possum, but I'll admit this is one of those "ehhh" moments that's hard to argue in any direction.



    Fair enough. So do you feel Young Thor could have similarly restrained the Hulk had he been in that position with those cables?
    Frankly I think Apoc was operating somewhat beyond either, but yes, someone as strong as the Hulk in that position could have pulled that off. Certainly they could have maintained a similar "not flung off, Hulk actually felt being choked" outcome.

  11. #86

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    Ya know, if I keep participating in this thread much longer, I may very well transform into the dreaded 4 am Denny's. And nobody wants that.
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  12. #87
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    That looks like dude is getting by on having an axe designed for the purpose of mauling the crap out of Apocalypse. The axe is how he blocks a full on shot from him, and otherwise considerably effs him up. The main thing Thor does of himself there is dodge the one thing.

    I am at that comfortable in saying that repeated, deep axe wounds will impair how gud someone am fight.

  13. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    That looks like dude is getting by on having an axe designed for the purpose of mauling the crap out of Apocalypse. The axe is how he blocks a full on shot from him, and otherwise considerably effs him up. The main thing Thor does of himself there is dodge the one thing.
    Yeah, but Young Thor had the enchanted axe for their second fight, but according to you, was in need of a rally to not die.

    Him suddenly smashing through the guy with the same gear implies that current Thor is at least more formidible than his younger self. And having a sharp axe doesnt mean it's defensive properties are different. It's not Cap's shield. He still has to resist that blow with his own strength and such.

    Now what's all this Dork was talking about with Gorr and Hulk passing out from pain?? I'm not super familiar with that Hulk.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pendaran View Post
    That looks like dude is getting by on having an axe designed for the purpose of mauling the crap out of Apocalypse. The axe is how he blocks a full on shot from him, and otherwise considerably effs him up. The main thing Thor does of himself there is dodge the one thing.

    I am at that comfortable in saying that repeated, deep axe wounds will impair how gud someone am fight.
    It doesn't hold up the notion that Apocalypse is considerably stronger than him though. A headbutt to young Thor sent him reeling and created shockwaves for a hundred miles while sending him flying but a blocked punch allows older Thor to stand his ground

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Arbiter View Post
    Yeah, but Young Thor had the enchanted axe for their second fight, but according to you, was in need of a rally to not die.

    Him suddenly smashing through the guy with the same gear implies that current Thor is at least more formidible than his younger self. And having a sharp axe doesnt mean it's defensive properties are different. It's not Cap's shield. He still has to resist that blow with his own strength and such.

    Now what's all this Dork was talking about with Gorr and Hulk passing out from pain?? I'm not super familiar with that Hulk.
    Going by your own logic, Thor started out by shanking Apocalypse from behind.

    I'm pretty cool with getting cut into with an axe such that you scream being an issue.

    Him suddenly smashing through the guy with the same gear implies that current Thor is at least more formidible than his younger self. And having a sharp axe doesnt mean it's defensive properties are different. It's not Cap's shield. He still has to resist that blow with his own strength and such.
    We see parts of Apocalypse flaking off for hitting the axe.

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